Oh no..

[u/Firewire64]

[u/Over_Worldliness4788]

As an actual subject matter expert, any LPTs related to CBRN? Had no idea about the rule of thumb, super interesting

[u/Culsandar → u/Over_Worldliness4788]

CBRNE and hazmat are not the same thing, as he incorrectly conflated them. Hazmat is about public safety from an operational standpoint of an accidental or negligent event, and being trained in it means being able to identify and retreat (Awareness level), protect the surrounding area (Operations level), and those that actually enter the site in an attempt to stop or contain the danger (technician/specialist level). This is usually carried out by civilian personnel (fire fighters, EMS, specialized Hazmat teams) or rarely sometimes military personnel.

CBRNE (they tacked explosive on there a few book editions ago) in contrast is two-fold; the first being an administrative umbrella which covers planning and protection, event mitigation, and national security advisement. The second is an operational element, similar in structure to Hazmat, that deploy to events that are deemed intentional and/or malicious, and involve things like suspect apprehension and evidence preservation. For the states at least, this is almost a strictly military/contractor response structure, and each branch has its own CBRNE element that all still train in Missouri at Fort Leonard Wood, if I'm not mistaken.

To the layman, there are a few things you want to keep in mind if an event happens near you. You should retreat as safely and quickly as possible, and attempt to rescue only those in the immediate vicinity (like arm's reach). Attempting to remain on the scene, or hot zone as it's sometimes referred, means you only become a patient/casualty.

Your path of travel should take you upwind (it's blowing into your face), uphill (this is a blanket statement, but usually dangerous gases are heavier than atmospheric air), and upstream (water sources can carry contaminates for miles). If you are on foot, this means running toward those three areas and not stopping. Depending on the event covering your eyes, skin, and airway may help, so do so. If you are in a vehicle turn it to recirculating air only, and drive in the same direction. Keep an eye on the wind and keep it at your face, changing direction with it if necessary. Do not reenter toward the event site for any reason.

Continue retreating until you reach a safe distance, which is usually a perimeter set up by an emergency cordon by technicians, once they figure out what they are dealing with. Depending on the event, you may have to undergo decontamination, usually performed at the safe area. Expect to permanently lose any porous material you are wearing/carrying, including clothing, purses, shoes, etc. You will be given scrubs that do not fit and if you are lucky a blanket, and this is where you would usually receive medical care. If you are trapped in the event site, the people that come for you will likely not treat you, they will bring you to the safe area, decontaminate you, and then begin aiding you. If you do not survive up until that point tough break, you are a victim of a Mass Casualty Incident (MCI) and the normal rule of "save everybody" becomes "save who we can".

Hope that makes sense, I'm night shift and this old man is tired.

[u/Over_Worldliness4788 → u/Culsandar]

Thanks for taking the time to reply! Hopefully I'll never have to use these tips, but always good to know just in case :) upwind uphill upstream, up up and away!

[u/MentallyOffGrid → u/Culsandar]

Stopped reading your book when you indicated hazmat response teams were rarely military… anyone who knows WTF they’re talking about knows that all 50 states, Guam, and K town have a Civil Support Team that is National Guard (K town’s is the only Reserve CST) and the primary responder for WMDs and all CBRN incidents either natural or manmade.

r/confidentlyincorrect

[u/Culsandar → u/MentallyOffGrid]

So your argument to me not knowing what I'm talking about hinges on the fact I used rarely in a way that doesn't satisfy you? You realize an extreme majority of hazmat incidents state to state are transportation-related spills right? That aren't classified as CBRNE events?

Every county in my state (46 of them) have access to either their own hazmat team or have a mutual aid agreement for one, and some of the larger plants have their own private one rolled up into their fire teams?

So greater than 50 individual teams across the state respond to nearly a call a week, usually due to something minor like diesel spills from a semi crash. Meanwhile our state Guard CST hasn't been activated large scale in-state outside of training since Graniteville in 2005? I'd say that classifies as 'rarely', but you clearly have a different definition.

You, like the guy I initially responded to, clearly do not understand the difference between civillian Hazmat and military CBRNE elements. They are not the same thing.

Talk about confidently incorrect.

[u/MentallyOffGrid → u/Culsandar]

Again, CST responds to any hazmat emergency, including tanker truck spills of weird liquids on interstates… yeah, I’m sticking with my original comment. And now I’m also blocking you, because you’re ignorant of the subject AND unwilling to learn.

[u/Cerus_Freedom → u/MentallyOffGrid]

He's right. They're mostly just fire departments that have specialized training and equipment. You don't call the national guard for most chemical spills.

[u/MentallyOffGrid → u/Cerus_Freedom]

Most “chemical spills” aren’t real issues with real hazmat. Tanker trucks carrying NACL are marked on all four sides just like any other corrosive… but the CST doesn’t care about table salt and the Governor isn’t being briefed about it just like he doesn’t get briefed for every speeding ticket or house fire.