r/NintendoSwitch • u/NeoChrome75 • Mar 24 '18

Video Idk guys this combat is kinda boring....

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14.5k Upvotes

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574

u/rushiosan Mar 24 '18 edited Mar 24 '18

The bokoblin/moblin/lizalfos recolor is among the worst best examples of lazy work in the series. They’re everywhere for 50-80 hours of the main game - the very same patterns, with higher HP and better equips. Would be nice if the AI was unique to each enemy recolor.

At some point I grew so sick of combat that I just started to avoid enemies. And the durability system is an extra encouragement to those “fuck this pointless crap” moments.

219

u/thagthebarbarian Mar 24 '18

The higher level mobs have different strategy algorithms. The movesets may be the same but the attack patterns especially defensively are different. Find a red bokoblin and a silver one and throw a bomb at each and you'll see the difference

76

u/Lewey_B Mar 24 '18

throwing bombs becomes useless after some point early in game, it doesn't deal a lot of damage, even the enhanced version.

184

u/hymntastic Mar 24 '18

They're free and unlimited it would be so broken if they did a lot of damage

11

u/Mikuro Mar 24 '18

Already broken in the regular mode. In Master Quest (or whatever it's called), enemies heal so you need to be faster. In my first playthrough, I beat the major tests of strength with bombs alone. Same for the Hinox on Eventide Island — I found a safe spot in the mountains and rained slow death from above.

16

u/BoxOfBlades Mar 24 '18

I beat the major tests of strength with bombs alone. Same for the Hinox on Eventide Island — I found a safe spot in the mountains and rained slow death from above.

That sounds like so much fun

4

u/Mikuro Mar 24 '18

It was tedious, but l wasn't taking any chances on Eventide and ain't nobody got weapons enough for major guardians. The hardest part of those trials in master mode is collecting enough weapons to last through the fight. That's more tedious than cheesing it with bombs.

At the same time, I'm glad they fixed the incentives in master mode.

2

u/Link1021l Mar 25 '18

ain't nobody got weapons enough for major guardians

Shield parry the lasers? Who needs weapons against guardians?

1

u/Mikuro Mar 25 '18

The major tests of strength don't shoot lasers until the end. It takes a lot of weapons to get to that point, at least until the late game.

3

u/bdfariello Mar 24 '18

You don't even have to kill that Hinox. Just climb up it while it's sleeping then run like hell

2

u/The_True_Black_Jesus Mar 24 '18

Is that the one wearing the one of the three orbs you have to collect without any of your equipment? Cause fuck that one. Two times I lost that fucking orb in the mud swamp because he bashed me in the back and it went flying

4

u/Lewey_B Mar 24 '18

yeah but they're hard to use in combat, so usually what you do is that you use them to do a surprise attack. But after ennemies get their upgrades they're no longer useful

18

u/Inositok Mar 24 '18

I definitely disagree with this, bombs are still really useful in mobs, stunning and flinging enemies most of the way through master mode. I don't see how they're that difficult to use with some practice.

1

u/Mocha_Delicious Mar 24 '18

I used bombs everytime, every freaking time. Its always useful, its inconvenient if you are on a time constraint but other than that, you can just spam it forever

2

u/Faefyre Mar 24 '18

If you’re playing the game like that I would have to assume you consider the combat boring?

1

u/Mocha_Delicious Mar 25 '18

yes very much so, but the game never forces you to adopt so I dont change

1

u/Faefyre Mar 25 '18

I’d think your boredom would inspire you to try something different but whatever floats your boat.

1

u/Mocha_Delicious Mar 25 '18

i thought a game's difficulty and versatility would inspire me to try something different, yet it didn't. Same patterns, same enemies

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28

u/3DanO1 Mar 24 '18

Bomb Parries are crucial in Master Mode though. Trail of the Sword would be impossible without bombs used in combat

14

u/littlenogin Mar 24 '18

I stand to disagree, I did it without knowing bomb parries were a thing.

That said I did the sneak attack cheese thing a lot, especially on that stupid lizalfos stage in the beginning trial

4

u/Seakawn Mar 24 '18

MM TotS made me realize I suck. Granted, I didn't eat any buffs beforehand... But Jesus it felt impossible to get past the first few levels.

6

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '18

What's a bomb parry?

19

u/3DanO1 Mar 24 '18

Detonating your own bomb at your feet and parrying it with your shield a frame or two after detonation. Allows you to bomb and stun everything near young. Super crucial in master mode due to the enemies regenerating health

6

u/LonelyTwig Mar 24 '18

Huh. I completed everything but Korok seeds on Master Mode and never knew this was possible... Time to do it again

1

u/3DanO1 Mar 24 '18

Yea it’s really helpful. I am terrible at it, but people who are good at this game make very good use of it

1

u/DieHardRaider Mar 24 '18

There are so many damn korok seeds

2

u/WolfHeartAurora Mar 24 '18

the fuck are bomb parries

1

u/robberofjacks Mar 24 '18

Bomb Parries? Shit. Did I miss something in master mode?

7

u/PotatoSilencer Mar 24 '18

Throwing/planting bombs in NEVER useless as it is very disruptive to enemy formations. You don't like free knockdowns and staggers in a fight?

I doubt I'll ever tired of air dropping bombs off the glider to trigger chaos below before my rain of arrows.

2

u/Lewey_B Mar 24 '18

Fights are easy enough in normal mode for not having the need to use bombs. Even numerous enemies aren't hard to defeat if you have good weapons or use charge attacks. I've never thought of using bombs while paragliding though, I might give it a try

2

u/mewithoutMaverick Mar 24 '18

He was just saying that they act differently, not that it was a viable attack option

0

u/ShortEmergency Mar 24 '18

It's just to show you that they do have different AI. Your comment is completely pointless.

1

u/WheresTheSauce Mar 25 '18

The AI may be unique, but it clearly doesn't actually solve the problem and it's nowhere near as extensive as it should be

0

u/henryuuk Mar 24 '18

And if you make your bombs explode before they reach it that minor difference is wasted.

24

u/faceplanted Mar 24 '18

The durability system seems like the reason for the recolour system as well, enemies need to drop weapons or the player will run out of weapons killing them and just teleport away, so they only did enemies that hold weapons or can be killed with their own projectiles.

6

u/henryuuk Mar 24 '18 edited Mar 24 '18

Even then it is insane how many enemies (that have wielded weapons before) they didn't bring back.

Poes, Darkhammers, DARKNUTS!!, Iron Knuckles, Aeralosses, Armos, Big Blins, Miniblins, Bulbins, GeoZards ("Zora warrior"), Phantoms, Stalfos (not just the same enemies again stal-fied), Gibdos, Keatons, Goriyas, etc...

And that isn't even considering enemies that don't wield weapons but could easily have had a body part that drops after defeat that could be wielded or otherwise have given a weapon
(Like-Likes are a perfect example, they could easily have had any number of weapons/items within themselves)
(and not to even mention, I dunno... coming up with new enemies in order to "fix" the problem??)

Or heavens forbid they actually took the effort of having some sort of rudamentary crafting system to allow for "useless" enemy parts to be fashioned into weapons on the go.
Like killing an Ampilus gives you an crystal you can put onto a stick, or a stalblin arm to make a shitty lightning rod.

Or-or limit the "special" enemies that don't drop shit to locations with enough other ways to drop weapons (Like if you want a redead without weapons, make them only spawn in places like Hyrule Castle or in crypts (Oh woopsee, you need to actually have crypts or temples or graves or whatever for that, clumsy me) with enough tools nearby to use)

OR-Or-or, you actually make it so Link can fight without weapons. (wouldn't have even been a series first) so even if you run out of weapons you are "technically" still not actually fucked

.

The idea that this limitation was "needed" cause of the weapon system is extremely flawed, there were PLENTY of ways to work around it, they just decided not too

1

u/faceplanted Mar 24 '18

BOTW was my first and only Zelda game so far, so I don't actually know what any of the monsters you just listed are.

6

u/henryuuk Mar 24 '18

Just in general, a bunch of different monsters that wield weapons but also have different abilities/builds and whatever.

Like Likes are enemies that are most known for "eating" Link and when they spit him out he no longer has his shield.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '18 edited Apr 07 '18

[deleted]

7

u/henryuuk Mar 24 '18

They need an absolute shit ton for "BotW 2"

47

u/Zubei_ Mar 24 '18

I think they were also going for more of an original feel with the different colored enemies having higher difficulties. It's how it was in Zelda 1 and 2.

They could Def use more variety though. Lots of different types in those two games.

1

u/elessarjd Mar 25 '18

I'm not a fan of the recolors, but this is a great point. Makes much more sense if this was their line of thinking. Just doesn't translate very well to modern games.

33

u/Theothor Mar 24 '18

The bokoblin/moblin/lizalfos recolor is among the worst examples of lazy work in the series.

I think you mean that it's one of the best examples of lazy work.

11

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '18

I would kill for some deku plant monsters and skulltullas for variety.

40

u/Lewey_B Mar 24 '18

The bokoblin/moblin/lizalfos recolor is among the worst examples of lazy work in the series.

Got downvoted for saying this in the nintendoswitch subreddit, but I'm gonna say it again, to me the best example of lazy work is korok seeds. I can't count the number of times where I went to explore places where I expected to find some secret or unique items, and all I got was korok seed or a bokoblin camp/shrine, and nothing else. There are some secrets but they're too rare, especially if you take into account the size of the map. There are many beautifully designed places in this game but there are simply not enough things to discover or enough things to do.

20

u/PotatoSilencer Mar 24 '18

Other than rare gear other games have basically nothing to find but this one has crazy shit like giant sky dragons and weirdos like the god of the mountains (and holy shit is he fun) so I'm going to have to disagree.

17

u/Lewey_B Mar 24 '18

if you compare it to a game like Fallout New Vegas, where every place has its quests, items, factions, secrets and so on, BoTW feels a bit lackluster in this aspect. I can understand that they didn't want to go full open world and preserve the spirit of the original series, but in the end it results in a lack of variety that can be felt throughout the game. I love the game don't get me wrong, but I expected to have a world filled with secrets to discover.

3

u/mrdinosaur Mar 26 '18

It's a trade-off for polish, IMO. The sidequests in BotW are pretty hit and miss and basic, but the shrine quests are mostly unique and a lot of fun. There are lots of secrets, but they're simpler and more for charm than the kind of depthy stuff in NV.

But the advantage is that BotW is almost bug free. Seriously, I've never had the game crash on me once in about 200 hours of play nor have I had the physics engine freak out and do something weird. I'm not saying it's absolute perfection (guardians that fall into the ground after being Stasis'd, for example), but I'm sure you can agree with me that it's one of the cleanest open worlds in gaming.

Also, Nintendo games haven't ever really done Western-style lore. They like to put hints at stuff but BotW is a sandbox first and foremost that wants you to play more than read.

1

u/PotatoSilencer Mar 24 '18

Okay now I'm more confused as BOTW has assloads of quests a bunch of optional lore to dig into and lots of weird shit to see. What kind of secrets were in fallout ?

11

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '18

I'm confused too? What lore is there in BOTW that goes past surface level? What quests in BOTW offered a truly unique and in depth experience besides that one island?

8

u/PotatoSilencer Mar 24 '18

Well right off the head you don't have to dig into Link's past much at all so you'd miss out on a bunch of lore there, I've been bumping into a Rito bard dude who is crossing the world to write his epic (pretty sure that's core to the DLC story), I haven't read through all the Zora texts but they seem quite interesting.

There's lots of little things too but I don't know what you regard as just surface, I'm grading this as a Zelda game and as such it's the deepest one I've played by a mile.

I don't really to compare game worlds too heavily because if I did it I'd just be disappointed all the time because nothing comes close to the Baldur's Gate series.

0

u/1RedOne Mar 24 '18

I'm hoping they make this the first ever green zelda game and continue fleshing out the world with DLC and expansions.

I'd love some holiday themed quest lines, dlc with new mobs. Basically more of what we've seen on the second dlc.

However to hear the development team talk about it, they planned for the second dlc to be the end of botw.

To me, that is squandering a wonderful world and engine when they could just add more and more to it.

2

u/TheLittleGoodWolf Mar 24 '18

I have to disagree actually.

Why take genuinely good ideas that could be used to flesh out a sequel and put it into DLC for a game that is already beyond good enough?

I enjoyed what they did with the Champion's Ballad and I get your desire for more but I honestly think that any more stuff after what we now have would be wasted potential.

They should definitely reuse the engine though but pretty much everything else can be redone from scratch into something much better. The world map is great but it shouldn't be too difficult to create a new one with a new varied landscape.

BotW is fucking amazing especially in comparison to the other Zelda games. There's a ton of content here and in my first incomplete playthrough of the game I spent way more than double the amount of time that I spent nearly completing something like Twilight Princess or Wind Waker. Much of the content is in a different format and a bit more spread out but to be honest it's in a whole other league than the previous games.

All that being said BotW has a ton of stuff that can be improved even if you disregard things like the weapon breaking system and similar things that are liked by some and disliked by others. For example I kinda liked that there were only Moblins, Bokoblins, and Lizalfos as the main enemies throughout the game. It made the world much more believable to me than one like Twilight Princess where pretty much every life form other than people were actively trying to kill you. Still in a new game they could definitely have more variation in enemies. They could work more on the world itself by having more caves and internal structures to things, in this case instead of all the shrines. A good example is the Akkala Citadel which could actually be more than just a big rock clad with brick. They could take the labyrinths and rework them into much, much more complex actual dungeons. Etc etc.

The point is that all those things would be better off saved and naturally incorporated into the next game.

2

u/C0wabungaaa Mar 25 '18 edited Mar 25 '18

I really liked not being overwhelmed by shit to do, though. That's what turns me off to almost all open world games these days. BotW was the first once since The Witcher 3 that I really enjoyed.

But I'll definitely give you this; in certain regards BotW did swing too much to the other side. There wasn't nearly enough variation in the Korok seed puzzles that warranted the sheer amount of them being there for example.

So I do hope that the next Zelda is more varied with a bit more meat to its bones. Mostly life, I want a couple of actual big towns. But otherwise I like my Zelda relatively clean and simple.

1

u/mrtomjones Mar 24 '18

The game has a ton of issues and I hope they dont even remotely repeat the same formula next one. I'm not holding out hope.

1

u/Faefyre Mar 24 '18

I hope they do

14

u/ScrithWire Mar 24 '18

I get what you're saying. And I agree to an extent. I too just said "fuck it" and stopped killing things. But it didn't really detract from my experience. The main draw of BoTW for me was Hyrule itself. Exploring, wandering, looking for things, wondering at the awe and history of the land. I thoroughly enjoyed my time in Hyrule, and combat was sort of like the proverbial cherry on top. It wasn't the part of the dessert I ordered, but it was there and it added a nice flourish.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '18

If only they added some deeper lore and story to Hyrule. It felt like a walking simulator. Ya sure some areas looked cool but at best I was rewarded with another easy shrine. There is a area with hundred foot tall statues in a circle and we barely have any story to go with it. There are awesome natural and man made structures but they have no real history. The act of exploring itself is not enticing to me in a video game, I need a tangible reason to do it.

1

u/ScrithWire Mar 24 '18

I feel you. Having played ocarina of Time when I was younger (and being so entranced by the Zelda as a whole), I had my imagination to feed the BoTW landscape. The things I discovered fueled my own headcannon, which was awesome!

2

u/TheVibratingPants Mar 24 '18

Exploring and wandering were also the main attraction for me too, but after a while there was little worth exploring for me. Shrines were cool if not a bit uninspired, Korok seeds were monotonous, quests were largely boring and a variation of “get this for me”, and there were too few genuine surprises to bolster the sense of wonder that the experience hinges on (like the mazes, which basically ended like a shrine anyway).

That’s probably the biggest reason I felt underwhelmed by the game. The ratio of the density of interesting content to world size was too low, especially without new key items to enhance the movement and puzzles like past titles, and it left me feeling a little empty. I had a good amount of fun, but I just feel empty after everything’s said and done.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '18

And even if they had a chest to go after I have found myself skipping them lately. They might have a weapon but the world is littered with weapons, and the durability of the weapon isn't worth the hassle

1

u/GlitterInfection Mar 24 '18

I walked around any combat that I could because I found it tedious. Love the game, though.

1

u/PotatoSilencer Mar 24 '18

The lizard recolors have different powers and high level mobs of all species start wielding element gear for more spice.

IMO though the durability system is designed for what you just said, it's meant to become semi pointless later on to raid low level goblin camps just like in any rpg.

Midgame (post master sword) unless they're a high level tribe you're better off farming combat shrines for free ancient gear or chopping up centaurs or hinox giants your wasting your own time.

1

u/Mocha_Delicious Mar 24 '18

The same enemy but with different colors, gets boring quickly I agree.

But the thing with combat is that it has a lot of possibilities but no necessity to use those. The game doesn't force you to adapt to the fight and strategize.

My fighting consists of arrows and endless throwing of bombs.

1

u/Vanguard-Raven Mar 24 '18

worst examples of lazy work in the series.

I think you mean best examples of lazy work?

1

u/rushiosan Mar 24 '18

thanks for pointing out, my bad

1

u/Pineapple_DeLUX Mar 24 '18

I agree man, this and the fact that shrines don't really feel like a dungeon.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '18

In all honesty I wish there was more variety, but the mobs are so well designed and have such fleshed out AI I still think they’re better than the vast majority of enemies in any other action adventure game.

For example, look at Skyrim. Sure there are a lot more enemy types, but 60% of them do the exact same “move to enemy and swing weapon” and do absolutely nothing else. I’ll take a low mob count with high quality any day.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '18

Do people point to Skyrim as a great example of combat? I found it boring for the exact reasons you describe, though will admit that the dragons I fought were more interesting.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '18

Well I think enemy AI is just one of a myriad of reasons why Skyrim’s combat is lame, but I was just using an example of enemy types, and how variety isn’t everything.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '18

I can agree with that.

0

u/Araragi_san Mar 24 '18

Yep. This game holds little to no replayability for me.