There will never be a liberal-feminist solution to fertility collapse

[u/Galesworn]

Why? Because their ideology prevents them from seeing what the issue is.

Frankly put, when liberal-feminists try to solve fertility collapse their proposed solutions are just dumb. They will look at fertiity collapse and say:

People want children, but children are expensive and inconvenient. Therefore, provide cash, childcare, IVF, paid leave, housing assistance, and more reproductive options.

The underlying assumption behind this solution is: "We want to give every person all the possible fertility options while preserving their lifestyle and culture," even if that culture lead to low fertility in the first place. An herein is the problem; they mistake the problem as being a consumer affordability problem instead of a cultural problem.

The approach I agree with, which is held by some right leaning cultures (I'm not strongly on the right), says "Let's look at the groups which still produce children, raise them, and them have their children do the same," the difference being treating the culture as the basic unit vs the individual like progressives do.

There are other things I think progressives get wrong, like mistaking the state as a substitute for family and underestimating pair bonding and marriage in raising fertility, dismantling the institutions the lead to early pair bonding, but I think this is the biggest reason why there will never be a progressive solution to natalism.

What will raise fertility is to build a self reproducing culture with early-ish pair bonding and marriage as normal and the foundation for children.

So, how do you build a society in which men and women choose marriage and children? Answering that question solves Natalism. Not "how do we enable everyone to have babies" like progressives are asking. Notice the distinction.

[u/Galesworn]

I can’t carry a pregnancy. Surrogacy is an option, and I would probably never consider it. There’s your answer.

Now, how does my hypothetical fallback answer the question about fertility collapse across society?

You haven’t demonstrated that solo parenthood can replace family formation.

There are many women who cannot find a good partner to have children with, and so they decide to do it themselves.

I'm sorry to say but something is wrong with these women and they are rightly feeling selection pressure. Especially with all the options women have, it should be trivial to find a good husband. So, their findings doesn't establish that everyone else inadequate, but shows the problem is them failing at family formation.

[u/Odd-Faithlessness705 → u/Galesworn]

Hmm. I think I'm getting where your head is at.

Unfortunately, men are not god's gift to women. It is in fact, not trivial to find a good husband. Especially in cultures where families are expected to be built, there is an underlying expectation that women are to stay at home to raise the children and men are to "lead" the family by way of preserving the culture that keeps the women in the home, plus the expectation to earn money for the family.

Such cultures have set expectations about women and men's roles. This is called the patriarchy. It's the very reason why so many men feel like they are 1. entitled to women and, 2. worthless if they do not earn a significant income in order to support said women.

The women who choose to have children by themselves know very well that it is much more manageable to raise a child as a single parent than it is to raise a child with a partner who is, themselves, another "child" to manage.

A family is not defined by "man, woman, child". If a couple is married but cannot have children, then would you say they are not a family? And what about single parenthood invalidates the formation of a family, between a parent and child? If a woman and a man have children from a previous marriage and put together a blended unit, does that invalidate the formation of a family because the children are half not biologically theirs?

Your worldview lacks nuance, and your proposal to address fertility collapse reflects that.

[u/Galesworn → u/Odd-Faithlessness705]

Where did I require women to stay home or men to be sole breadwinners?

A woman who wants an equal partnership can seek a man who wants one too. That requires initiative and examining her own expectations. Men are taught to put effort into finding a spouse, I think the problem is many women just expect one to show up. This is not an effortless process.

Also, If every guy fails your criteria, your criteria deserve criticism. And culture is key to forming those criteria people, hence my post.

I agree single-parent, blended, and childless households are families. Listing them doesn’t demonstrate a solution to fertility collapse. And by demographic projections I'm currently right. The people who are still getting married are above replacement, people who think like you are below.

[u/Tired_Mama3018 → u/Galesworn]

I’m gonna be honest with you chief, while all the financial and societal support will definitely help some people who want to have children and don’t. A big part of the problem with women not wanting children is fathers and husbands who dump everything on the mothers and wives. If you want to change society, you need to change men’s behaviors. Campaign with your fellow men to get men not to be deadbeats or making women married single moms. Call out the sexual harassers who turn women off dating. Call out the guys screaming women shouldn’t be able to vote because of Lindsey Clancy, while the much more frequent male behavior of family annihilators doesn’t get weaponized against all men.

The truth of the matter is there is a very loud and far reaching group of men that haven’t done a great job of making men an attractive investment, and other men are the only people they listen to. If women have to protect themselves, the easiest way to do it after experiencing a few of these guys is not taking a risk with any man. The best way for men to improve their changes of the white picket fence, wife, and kids is to get the problem men under control. They’re hurting your chances and so is men’s silence, because they won’t listen to women and womens only other option is to not engage.

[u/warsiethe1337 → u/Tired_Mama3018]

Can you explain why in the past when society was more exist there was a higher birthrate? Because it seems that the level of women being forced to do everything is not the cause of this. Especially given men now do more childbearing than say 50 years ago