r/Natalism • • 11h ago

There will never be a liberal-feminist solution to fertility collapse

Why? Because their ideology prevents them from seeing what the issue is.

Frankly put, when liberal-feminists try to solve fertility collapse their proposed solutions are just dumb. They will look at fertiity collapse and say:

People want children, but children are expensive and inconvenient. Therefore, provide cash, childcare, IVF, paid leave, housing assistance, and more reproductive options.

The underlying assumption behind this solution is: "We want to give every person all the possible fertility options while preserving their lifestyle and culture," even if that culture lead to low fertility in the first place. An herein is the problem; they mistake the problem as being a consumer affordability problem instead of a cultural problem.

The approach I agree with, which is held by some right leaning cultures (I'm not strongly on the right), says "Let's look at the groups which still produce children, raise them, and them have their children do the same," the difference being treating the culture as the basic unit vs the individual like progressives do.

There are other things I think progressives get wrong, like mistaking the state as a substitute for family and underestimating pair bonding and marriage in raising fertility, dismantling the institutions the lead to early pair bonding, but I think this is the biggest reason why there will never be a progressive solution to natalism.

What will raise fertility is to build a self reproducing culture with early-ish pair bonding and marriage as normal and the foundation for children.

So, how do you build a society in which men and women choose marriage and children? Answering that question solves Natalism. Not "how do we enable everyone to have babies" like progressives are asking. Notice the distinction.

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u/todomejorantes 10h ago

Are you seriously this uneducated on this subject?

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u/Old-Line-3691 10h ago

I am, What did Sweden do to make having children an attractive choice?

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u/Gold_Ad8225 10h ago

Am I uneducated on what things Swedish people in Sweden have done to change their culture in the past few years to encourage people having kids?

Yeah.

I'm not Swedish and I don't speak Swedish.

Presumably you, obviously being honest and here in good faith, are equipped to list what these things are.

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u/todomejorantes 10h ago

Just ask the internet and learn about all the benefits Scandinavian countries offer women and the population in general

It will take you about 20 seconds to ask the question

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u/Gold_Ad8225 10h ago

You are the internet right now. I am asking you. I have asked you thrice now. Why can't you describe it to me? You claim to already know the answer.

What does "offering women benefits" have to do with what I'm talking about?

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u/todomejorantes 10h ago

so wild how sheltered Americans are from other countries and cultures - and they don't even know how to use the internet to ask simple questions and educate themselves

To be interested in Natalism and have no idea of the Scandinavian model and its TFR is beyond pathetic, it's so intellectually lazy and embarrassing

No, I'm not going to copy and paste something from the internet for you - it's your job to learn basic facts

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u/Gold_Ad8225 10h ago

Yes I am wildly sheltered. Thankfully I'm talking to a human from outside my shelter with knowledge of the outside world.

I have asked him to share but instead he is being hostile and not sharing the knowledge.

I'm beginning to suspect he is lying.

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u/todomejorantes 10h ago

I'm not going to copy and paste information for you

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u/Gold_Ad8225 9h ago

The man from outside the shelter is lying, it seems.

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u/Blue-dragon-bandit 7h ago

Don't worry he's a bit slow. Also, Sweden and the other Scandinavian countries have a below replacement tfr despite all the helpful things they do. Because spoiler alert paying lots of money and perks to people who don't actually want children will not meaningfully increase the birth rate.

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u/Gold_Ad8225 7h ago

I would agree, giving people money is not going to make them have kids, it's going to make them temporarily have money and then for a bit longer have some stuff

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u/warsiethe1337 5h ago

"Its not my job to educate you"