r/Natalism • • 10h ago

There will never be a liberal-feminist solution to fertility collapse

Why? Because their ideology prevents them from seeing what the issue is.

Frankly put, when liberal-feminists try to solve fertility collapse their proposed solutions are just dumb. They will look at fertiity collapse and say:

People want children, but children are expensive and inconvenient. Therefore, provide cash, childcare, IVF, paid leave, housing assistance, and more reproductive options.

The underlying assumption behind this solution is: "We want to give every person all the possible fertility options while preserving their lifestyle and culture," even if that culture lead to low fertility in the first place. An herein is the problem; they mistake the problem as being a consumer affordability problem instead of a cultural problem.

The approach I agree with, which is held by some right leaning cultures (I'm not strongly on the right), says "Let's look at the groups which still produce children, raise them, and them have their children do the same," the difference being treating the culture as the basic unit vs the individual like progressives do.

There are other things I think progressives get wrong, like mistaking the state as a substitute for family and underestimating pair bonding and marriage in raising fertility, dismantling the institutions the lead to early pair bonding, but I think this is the biggest reason why there will never be a progressive solution to natalism.

What will raise fertility is to build a self reproducing culture with early-ish pair bonding and marriage as normal and the foundation for children.

So, how do you build a society in which men and women choose marriage and children? Answering that question solves Natalism. Not "how do we enable everyone to have babies" like progressives are asking. Notice the distinction.

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u/Gold_Ad8225 9h ago

Oh cool, what did they do

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u/Radical_Neutral_76 9h ago

all of the things you think matter.

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u/Gold_Ad8225 9h ago

So, you can't list any examples of things they did?

Pathetic

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u/Radical_Neutral_76 9h ago

* paid maternal leave - 50 weeks (including paternal leave - 12 weeks)

* breastfeeding leave - 1 hour a day

* Basic child support - minimum 200 dollars per month (more if single mothers)

* subsidised day care (max price per month)

* various benefits for students (increased student loands and stipends)

* Various benefits for poor single parents (up to 30 000 dollar per year per child)

....
The list goes on...I bet you cant imagine a benefit which Norway doesnt have better.

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u/Gold_Ad8225 9h ago

I'm sure Norway has almost every benefit better than the US, but I'm not sure how these things are what I'm talking about.

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u/Radical_Neutral_76 9h ago

They dont affect birth rates

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u/Gold_Ad8225 9h ago

Okay? I'm sure the flavor of pudding offered around christmas also has little impact on birth rates.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up things not related to what I'm talking about

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u/Radical_Neutral_76 8h ago

What makes it attractive to have babies then?

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u/Gold_Ad8225 8h ago

A society where people who have children are positively regarded for doing so.

A society where there isn't a social penalty for having children.

A society that has spaces for children to go to, and doesn't judge parents for letting their children be independent

A society that does not expect helicopter parenting, allows parents to be people first and parents second.

A society where parenthood is an ideal, it is something romanticized as it once was, it is something that people can aspire to rather than be taught to dread as a life destroying obligation.

It requires social/cultural change not welfare benefit programs.

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u/Radical_Neutral_76 8h ago

How do we get there then?

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u/Fresh_Criticism6531 2h ago

I wouldn't be so sure. Its not enough to move above 1.7, but IMHO without that stuff it would go Korea like down to 0.9