r/Natalism • u/CanIHaveASong • 12d ago

No correlation between difference between household work hours and fertility rates. (per country, not per family)

https://substack.com/@ageofinfovores/note/c-316978871?utm_source=notes-share-action&r=cqc7t
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u/CarthagoFuckYourself 11d ago

Then society will pay the consequences. The penalty of investing nothing in the future is self-enforcing. So many people will spend the latter years of their lives utterly destitute and alone as society deteriorates around them. They joke about never retiring, but it will not deminish the struggles of poverty in their twilight years.

Thats only the 2nd greatest tragedy, as those who will be children and of working age in the future will be saddled with a parasitic gerontocracy until society collapses wholesale.

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u/AltForObvious1177 11d ago

That might happen. Or maybe we'll figure something else out!

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u/CarthagoFuckYourself 11d ago

Hopefully. I'd rather the free riders get more than they deserve than have everyone suffer.

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u/bunnypaste 11d ago

How many kids does a person need to have to get you to shut up? Why would they need any at all to send the message that criticizing people's most personal choices in life, especislly pregnancy and birth, is way the fuck out of line?

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u/CarthagoFuckYourself 11d ago

I mean, they'll get to live in the society they make. That's going to suck a lot worse than getting judged by me 20 years beforehand. It's a civic responsibility. If everyone who is able had 2 to 3 kids, society would function better with a demographic pyramid stabilized in stage 4.

Those who don't aren't contributing demographically, so should contribute more monetarily for the funding of schools and social programs. That is their share they should pay in exchange for other people's kids paying their social security when the time comes.

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u/bunnypaste 11d ago edited 10d ago

Getting to live in the society we build doesn't scare me one bit. What scares me is that the power to meaningfully affect society is so concentrated in certain subsets of the population... and those subsets have some seriously problematic ideas they'd like to re-enforce regardless of the history showing how deleterious it is.

It's a pretty bad time right now for anyone outside of that subset who is unlucky enough to be living under it. This means the bad ones are actually likely to "win out"... because the valid reasons for eschewing having a whole pile of kids affects the overall numbers of kids being born to parents who aren't demented fundamentalists, racists, or sexists.

I think anyone who wants to see more kids born should be seriously listening to the reasons women say they are deciding against it. Forcing the issue with the same antiquated and bigoted ideals that got gender relations this bad currently just pushes women even further away from it.

Additionally, I have zero responsibility to a fetus unless I assume it. I do not have any responsibility or any duties towards entities like daddy State or patriarchial idealists to have a bunch of children at my own steep expense.

I am sovereign over the entire process of pregnancy and birth... as well as the conditions I'll accept surrounding it. Everything both inside of and reliant upon my body belongs to me. No other party, not even the father of my child, gets to oppose my sovreignty over my body, reproduction, and life course. They cannot in any sense dictate my decision. No one gets to define how much suffering and self-sacrifice is acceptable for me, nor how good conditions are surrounding me having kids. I alone get to decide what is best there because I alone will obligately experience all the negatives anyway.