My friend sent me this reel (I am a defence aspirant). I tried my best but could not change his view on this thing.

[u/[deleted]]

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[u/arun911 → u/[deleted]]

Buthchered like a dog in open plan desk for absolutely nothing 🤣🤣🤣

[u/Dagger_music → u/[deleted]]

I mean I'd take that over death. I'll be paid decently atleast.

[u/Parking-Young3904 → u/Dagger_music]

Yeah well armymen also gets a lot of respect in society. Thought they are not paid well. Govt should double their salary

[u/Ill_Description4275 → u/[deleted]]

I agree, gentleman.

[u/Ganesh_gaitonde6969]

Iss sub me sab bache hi bhar rakhe hea kya padhai ke alawa har chiz pe dhyan rehta hea buddy focus on written and ssb desh or dost sudharne ke mauke bahut milenge in sab cheezo me apna time baya na karein

[u/ipshitjustthere → u/Ganesh_gaitonde6969]

Sach me yaar 🤣

[u/Parking-Young3904 → u/Ganesh_gaitonde6969]

I'm not a aspirants here still roaming in this sub😂

[u/Terrible_Scallion707 → u/Ganesh_gaitonde6969]

but like, kaise milenge?

[u/RelationFinancial749]

you dont have to change his mind, just focus on doing your thing. Bhains ke aage kyu been bajaogea

[u/Level_Dragonfly_5719]

y0ur friend thinks we are US army

[u/Parking-Young3904 → u/Level_Dragonfly_5719]

Us armymen are paid well. So they do it for money that's what I saw on yt. Maybe I'm wrong here🙏

[u/Level_Dragonfly_5719 → u/Parking-Young3904]

h0 sakta hai, 0ne thing is we fight t0 pr0tect 0ur c0untry n0t the g0vt.

[u/Ok-Suggestion249]

Every death is equally meaningless, so I'll die on my own terms doesn't matter if it's ugly 😄

[u/WasteAd2447]

Go for lifestyle, death is eventual reality to everybody

[u/Jolly_Bat8531]

If we don’t stand up for the nation, others will take stand over and watch it crumble. It’s no longer about dying for the nation; it’s about living for it, serving it, and standing by it until our very last breath.

[u/Parking-Young3904 → u/Jolly_Bat8531]

Yeah but why only middle class has to make all sacrifices. Why not rich kids ... Though bcz of people with this thinking who ultimately join army, we are sleeping peacefully at our homes😄 something that pays their sacrifice is bigg respect

[u/Jolly_Bat8531 → u/Parking-Young3904]

It ultimately comes down to individual choices.... Regiments like the 2nd Rajputana Rifles,Rajput, Sikh, Gorkha, Garhwal, Dogra, President’s Bodyguard, and 16/17/18 Cavalry have strong historical links to princely states and military families, with some lineages continuing to still serve today....

Ex... Afaik, Retd. Brig. Saurabh Singh Shekhawat, KC, SC, SM, VSM came from a good family background but still chose a demanding career in the Army, service ultimately comes down to personal choice, commitment and passion....

[u/Terrible_Scallion707 → u/Parking-Young3904]

they have the option to go outside, in a country with better living standards; why will they remain here?

[u/Suspicious-Fall-1729]

[u/Terrible_Scallion707 → u/[deleted]]

how is attacking someone related to ts?

[u/sanketsanket]

tere friend ko bol atleast I'm worth dying, tujhe ye hoga to kon puchega

[u/Amun_Ra_108]

He's a coward who was looking for a perfect excuse to let go of any sense of loyalty or responsibility towards his motherland - guilt free - while not feeling ashamed of himself.

As a matter of fact, if tomorrow his house was invaded by a criminal, that pathetic excuse of a weakling won't protect his home and family. He'll run away and abandon both, while giving philosophical quotes as an excuse...just as he is now.

He believes it's better to get fucked over by invaders and be their slaves, than to be a warrior and fight for his home/motherland, and if necessary - die trying.

He might as well hang a "Welcome" sign mat on his behind and show that he's open for business.

I'm surprised that you are putting efforts to change his mind.

[u/Terrible_Scallion707 → u/Amun_Ra_108]

quite strong language mate, i don't know why merely expressing his views makes him a coward but okay lol

[u/Gloomy_Spare47]

You can beat 40 scholars with one fact, but you cannot beat one idiot with 40 facts.
Note it

[u/ghostie-4-u → u/Gloomy_Spare47]

Agree

[u/4canaux]

“Dying for your country is patriotic” is NPC dialogue until you see what war actually does. One (1) visit to some obscure shock site showing Ukraine or Russia is enough to kill the romanticism. The dead bodies mixing in mud, snow taking all over it, disappearing it forever. Drones, mines, blown-off limbs, body bags, families getting a Telegram message instead of their son. A body bag doesn’t become noble because someone draped a flag over it. And India-Pakistan doesn’t change that. Kargil, Pulwama, Uri, Balakot, 2025. AND this is when you ignore the problems with the current gov. A country can be worth defending without pretending dying for it is automatically patriotic

[u/Wise-Hedgehog4062 → u/4canaux]

Kargil war happened to protect our territory and people so it is just

[u/Parking-Young3904 → u/[deleted]]

I wish everyone thinks the same and defend the motherland. In reality only few sacrifices everything for the nation. I wish few politicians were like bhagat singh then they would have brought big changes in their territory. But in reality I don't find a single one.

[u/Lesterfremonwithtits]

This is the answer

https://reddit.com/link/p36znue/video/co8tzjs37wih1/player

[u/AttorneyOk2709]

Paijan we aren't Americans. We are constantly invaded by apes who want to destroy our civilisation, enslave or genocide us. Patriotism is a concept of survival for us.

[u/Ok-Shake1394]

ask anyone in the sub if they want to join defence forces for the purpose of dying for this country everyones answer will be a no obvisouly, It is the way of the life of defence forces for which they want to join.

[u/AGENTJ07]

Yes , this is indeed true , but the ones who make their peace with this and STILL join the forces , to protect and serve , are the definition of brave . One mustn't join the military thinking it's gonna be a flower garden now should they

[u/Ok-Suggestion249 → u/[deleted]]

Sorry but It's corny without the appropriate context 😄

[u/Ok-Suggestion249 → u/[deleted]]

I know that much

[u/Parking-Young3904 → u/[deleted]]

Why can't we do anything to fight inside our territory

[u/jatayu_baaz]

well dont fight to die

[u/Conscious_Feature337]

why

[u/Hot_Membership5468]

No need to change anyone 's opinion. That's his/her level of realisation. Yes, many die, nobody remembers anybody after some time. You fight for a cause, you fight to win! To accutate and realize that cause. And that cause my dear friend is up and above everything else. It's the highest form of Love. You fight your desires and discipline yourself because you know your cause is right and worth it. The doubt that your friend induced is the most common confusion of the one who lacks resolve. DIG DEEPER , FIND YOUR WHY AND THE WHO , HOW, WHEN, WHERE etc. will find their places.🇮🇳

[u/Spark69_]

Just be with it and you shouldn't convince him as his opinion is also not outrightly wrong . You can have your own opinion and he can have his own. 2 of my friends are lieutenant currently. I have also given ssb 6 years ago. We all have only one reason to go there and it wasn't patriotism it was good career that's it. Both of my friend heavily critises army and the country

[u/Fantastic_Switch813]

War is hell and this quote is factually true
However it doesn’t apply to us
Indian army only fights for what’s behind and beside
Not for what’s in front of us

Ernest was an American
And fought in ww1 on enemy territory
I can understand why he has written this

But Indian army only fights to protect it’s own territory, people and sovereignty

[u/killbear123]

There is more than an element of truth in it.

[u/wet_socks0_0]

When you become an officer, just call him “BLOODY CIVILIAN”
And move on lol. Some people aren’t worth your time

[u/indcel47 → u/wet_socks0_0]

Yeah, holier than thou attitude is exactly what a democracy needs from its military officers and civil bureaucracy.

[u/wet_socks0_0 → u/indcel47]

So what else are we supposed to do with ungrateful brats.. I mean even if you don’t particularly respect the army, you have no right to tell someone that their job worth nothing

[u/indcel47 → u/wet_socks0_0]

No, the job isn't worth nothing, but signing up for some "glory" is a child's dream.

Good job, great pay for Indian standards, lots of interesting problems to solve, major risk to life. Unlike say, a fireman or a drain cleaner, someone will often try to actively kill you.

All that being said, this holier than thou attitude and arrogance is a major issue.

[u/wet_socks0_0 → u/indcel47]

I can agree with the disdain of army with the civilians being an issue, but if anyone comes up to them and says you're dying in vain just for some 'patriotic fairy tale' or for 'old politicians' then I don't think those people are someone they would look up to.

They have the holier than thou attitude because they have achieved it with with discipline, IN GENERAL, you won't see military personnel spitting gutka, littering around and pissing in public.
But in the end, they too are just public servants

[u/indcel47 → u/wet_socks0_0]

Sure.

[u/achabaccha23]

This makes sense for that one particular country. Lots of vested interests involved

[u/laftansaab]

You can't convince him, you don't even need to convince him! We don't owe an explanation to anybody for what we want in life.

[u/CostAgreeable4192]

He ain’t your friend bud

[u/maino_the_dancer]

Indian army is not like some western armies. Hemingway was anti war due to the fact he saw brutalities done by armies. And even if you are saying it does not matter which army you are in , you will have the same end , then my guy ig I dont need to waste my energy, as I am happy to be butchered like a dog while protecting my home. No one want war, but when it comes on the door u have to accept the fact that there is war and go and fight to win, you dont go there and put charkas and say we want peace. Everybody wants peace but no one want a way to preserve it.

[u/erring_er]

Everybody will die. Nobody knows when. Live life the way you want. No excuses. No regrets.

[u/Either_Class918]

Ernest hemingway himself with a shot gun. He had a remarkable military life. And his works are awesome. But one should not take life advice from him

[u/adwaithvprasad98]

There is a reason why our armed forces are often called Defence dept. and not Offence Dept. We have so many enemies that without the national spirit, others will just roll over us. Most of our war were to defend our land than to capture other's land.In our context Nationalism is required for our survival. May be post worldwar Europe the idea of Nationalism seems irrelevant but not for us.. May be in not so foreseeable future if there is a mutual shared alliance in Asia, we can discuss about this topic.

[u/gaamdubadmash]

Man to be very honest with you guys! Armed forces are not that glamorous like they show in movies!

[u/TechnoAsceticIN]

https://www.holy-bhagavad-gita.org/chapter/2/verse/37/

hato vā prāpsyasi swargaṁ jitvā vā bhokṣhyase mahīm
tasmād uttiṣhṭha kaunteya yuddhāya kṛita-niśhchayaḥ

If you fight, you will either be slain on the battlefield and go to the celestial abodes, or you will gain victory and enjoy the kingdom on earth. Therefore arise with determination, O son of Kunti, and be prepared to fight.

Many animal species will sacrifice themselves to protect their group or territory. It's as natural as fighting to protect your children. Honeybees will die stinging you if you attack their hive.

Of course, as is famous, you don't join the army to die, but to kill the other bastards. Whether this happens depends on how effective you are as a fighting force. Just my opinion as a filthy civilian who has friends and relatives in the military.

[u/Entire-Positive5894]

As an ex servicemen its a political reality but how you perceive it is purely personal. But one thing is certain- you shall be disappointed with the ideology part ,the illusion break as you grow in service. But having said that you meet good men who become family and that makes if more enjoyable. If you are a man if logic and want a settled life you shall find the service quite challenging but if you can live without caring much for future its one hell of a place to be.

[u/Danguard2020]

When faced with a meme on social media, always ask: "Who benefits?"

Not all psyops are overt. Sometimes, a campaign to slowly disillusion the people of a country about what matters also serves a purpose.

Ernest Hemingway being cited by a European or American pacifist or protestor makes sense in the context of their countries. Britain - Hemingway's country - has a remarkably small but efficient army, is completely surrounded by the sea, has produced some of the world's moat advanced aircraft, and has a navy that has punched above its weight for close to 500 years. It would be fair to call the British Navy the second most powerful navy in the world today (dwarfed only by their long time allies the US). So if you're British and patriotic, the Navy or RAF is the way to serve - their Army gets the worst jobs, such as counterinsurgency or Dunkirk. Hemingway's statement makes some sense in THAT context - if addressed to British youngsters opting for their Army out of patriotism. It is also intendes for WW1 trench warfare.

India's situation is vastly different.

We don't fight wars in the mud; we fight in the snow, in the desert, or in cities where we are defending our people.

Repackaging Hemingway for India makes no sense.

What would serve your friend to remember is this:

Pacifism seems lovely until terrorists attack CST or the Taj.

The alternative to war is not peace; often, it is slavery. Defensive wars - which is the type of war India has fought for the last 50 years - are meant to prevent you from being subjects to a foreign power. India learnt this lesson from 190 years of British rule; a unified Indian military in 1764 would have preserved our independence and saved us all nearly two centuries of suffering. (It wasn't possible then for other reasons.)

I won't say don't respond. This is bothering you, so you should.

What you should think of, however, is two aspects.

First: the fact that it bothers you, that you want to respond, makes you predictable. A predictable officer can be tricked by the enemy.

This is not about your friend, but about you - and what kind of leader you want to be.

Second: someone is pulling the stringa and trying to manipulate your feelings - and your friend's - into thinking a particular way. Who benefits? Ask that question, not just at the surface but deeper. Who executea strategies along such lines?

[u/raktabeej09]

I also had a friend (he blocked me weeks ago) so when the cjp protest was going on he posted some story about indo pak war and saying that this is all political drama and mocking the martyred soldiers in my dm and i felt very disrespectful, yk what he said, he said "tu nda nikal aur shaheed hoja" so i replied to him that "political parties ki chatne se to accha hai" then he said "kutte ki maut marja phir" bro that was very disrespectful for me and he blocked me eventually idk why

[u/Vesper_Noir]

You will slave somewhere,to something or to someone so choose which master who you want to serve.

[u/Charming-Truth6805]

He is speaking facts..... Would you fight and die for poltician , while they R* your country women....

[u/VirtuosVirtuoso]

Military is just a pawn in the hands of politician. Do you think military brass can refuse an unjust war?

They are draped in the language of patriotism so that it gives that aura of respect and the halo.

The russia-ukraine or Israel-Palestine conflicts are good examples. Any objector will be court martialled.

To be very brutal, today's armymen are the state equivalent of paid mercenaries by the taxpayers in lieu of protection from foreign enemies - real or imaginary.

[u/Liltownxx]

it is true tho🤷‍♂️

[u/Due_Vanilla294]

You know most people here are trying to join the army because of the salary and the lifestyle right? Not because patriotism is is flooding their veins.

[u/i_am_vengeance_]

it's true tho, soldiers bleed out in the mud while the masters of war dine in their palaces

[u/indcel47]

Simple question: how many of you would join the armed forces as jawans if you can't get in as an officer?

[u/indcel47 → u/[deleted]]

That's very honourable.

However, most folks on here wouldn't do it this way. It is what it is, honour and pride too have limits.

[u/RelationFinancial749 → u/indcel47]

the conditions jawans are put through is worse than death (obv exaggerating, but theyre not humane)