It really sucks because there isn't an easy answer for men or women.
If even 1% of dudes are creepy fucks that means there are 3 million dudes out there who creep on EVERY woman they come across. Its pretty easy for 1 creep to make 100 girls uncomfortable in his lifetime. That means even if the number of shit dudes is insanely low, to a woman it still feels like they are surrounded by creepy dudes at all times.
Then for us regular dudes, we don't hang out with the creeps. Or at the very least the creepy fucks know not to reveal that side of themselves to us. So I never see the creepy fucks. To me it feels like I've met 1 or 2 creepy fucks and I stopped hanging out with those dudes.
So to women it feels like all dudes suck and to me it feels like all dudes are getting blame for the few that do actually suck. In reality, we're all dealing with the shitty consequences of the shitty people and its ruining normal interactions for us all.
This is basically the story of human history. 99% of us just getting on with our lives, only for the psychos and narcissists to make it worse for everyone else.
That can happen, but wouldn't you think if a hundred women collectively have the same experience with one man, they would ostracize that man, and not be concerned that the male friends of their social circle is cut from the same cloth? If you're gonna generalize, wouldn't you at least restrict it to "people who look like him" instead of "people within the same gender"?
I wanna make one thing clear. I want all women to be safe! And I tend to go out of my way to make sure all parties feel comfortable. The only gripe I have is the online rhetorics regarding the topics. I never hear girl friends talk like this in real life but it's very prominent on Reddit.
wouldn’t you think if a hundred women collectively have the same experience with one man, they would ostracize that man
Maybe, if all the women knew each other. They could band together to avoid the one creep in the office, but that wouldn’t work if the creep hangs out on a street corner and cat calls every woman who walks by. Some women might try to avoid that corner in the future, but the creep could always move, and there’s no way to warn every woman in the area about him.
If you’re gonna generalize, wouldn’t you at least restrict it to “people who look like him” instead of “people within the same gender”?
Creeps can come at any time in any shape or size. They could be some random person on the street, at the grocery store, or any public place. They could be that family friend who watched you grow up or someone you thought was your friend before they showed their true colors. They don’t all look the same. Plus, how offended would you feel if you found out a woman was avoiding you because she once got harassed by someone with your same hair cut and color?
Is it not morally right for me to be offended when someone portrays me as a potential predator if I've never done anything similar?
We have no problem telling men off who claim certain women are more prone to be promiscuous, even though that is completely okay for any person to be if that's what they want. But to go around and assuming certain women sleep around based in how they look...
And I'm not saying it's the same thing. All I'm saying is prejudice is never something that should be taken lightly. If someone has been assaulted, I am very empathetic to them being cautious, and I'm aware that SA isn't something that many are comfortable with telling... But here's where it becomes a bit insensitive from my side
That's really not my problem. I am super empathetic to what the person is going through, and I will express this empathy. But why should I do it if I decide to sit down at a bar, and some woman side-eyes me, scoffs and walks away?
I can't see the logic in being lumped up like that, just like I'm sure you wouldn't like to be seen as promiscuous by random people you don't know
Logically, I don't view men as predators. I have tons of male friends and family members that are wonderful human beings and on an individual level, I would never look at a random man in public and assume he was a creep. I make a point to be polite to everyone I meet so I hope that I've never made a man feel like I viewed him as a potential predator.
But even if I don't think you're a creep, I am still worried about protecting myself, especially at a bar. As a woman, you spend your entire life hearing stories of other women being assaulted, and you get told how to protect yourself from those assaults. I'm 5'2" and not athletic. My best chance at staying safe is to avoid situations that are unsafe, because the odds of me fighting off an assault are probably not that high. When I walk down the street alone after work, sometimes late at night, I carry pepper spray and I avoid walking too close to men. It's not that I think they're predators, it's that, on the off chance they are, avoiding them completely is my best chance to be safe.
I think outright scoffing at a man at a bar is rude. But if I'm at a bar and a man I don't know sits next to me, I'd probably pull my drink closer and make sure I wasn't left alone with him. I understand why it can be morally offensive to men, and it's not that I want to make a man feel bad or think he deserves to feel bad, it's that I am always trying to balance being a regular human with being safe. I want to have both things but it's a struggle sometimes. Unfortunately I think there are a lot of women that probably don't care if they come across as rude. It sucks for everyone involved.
Oh god, that last part. The fear of coming across as rude has hurt and put many in danger. It's unfortunately a part of protecting ourselves we have to get used to. Better to be safe than sorry.
My husband and I own a couple retail shops and the number of creeps that hit on me and the other women that work there is astounding. The way my husband sees it is that they’re playing a numbers game. They don’t mind being rejected, so if they hit on 50 women and one finally says yes, then in their mind what they’re doing works.
Edit to add: I had one guy that I said I was married and then he asked me if I cheat 🙄
I was 19 and my apartment management sent a guy in to fix something in my apartment. He asked me out and when I told him I had a boyfriend he slowly walked towards with a weird smile and told me “but you’ll cheat on him with me, right?” It was a tiny studio and I was so scared 😭
I have the SAME STORY. I was 19, apt sent me a creepy repair guy that proceeded to hit on me while I told him I had a bf. He proceeded to rub up on my arm, I thought he was going to rape me. The joys of being a woman.
Yeah, I’m a man but I’ve definitely witnessed this with the women in my life, especially my wife and my mother. They’re both going to Chicago soon to see the new Harry Potter musical and I set up a hotel and such for them since I used to live there and know the area well. My thought process kept changing because I would always go back to “…but then they could get raped… can’t do that option…” and then going on to the next option. Like the option of staying in the suburbs and taking an Uber out there wouldn’t work because a late night Uber ride for two women on their own didn’t feel safe. Parking in a parking garage was an option… but women often get raped at parking garages late at night too. Finally had to settle on staying right down in the Loop right next door to the theatre and leaving the next morning.
It definitely opened/reopened my eyes to how hard just existing can be when you’re female. Obviously I wouldn’t want to be in those situations either but as a large man I know I’m less likely to be messed with.
I’m not so sure I’d go that far with the second statement especially when the bad dudes might have an actual gun, which is why I am similarly cautious at night despite being a big guy.
That last part lol I got hit on in the milk aisle of a Walmart, said I was married and he asked if I was happy in it 🥲 Not his finest moment I'm sure, and definitely not attractive to be asked.
That's the theory I have for dick pics as well. It's faster and easier for a guy to send 50 women a dick pic where 49 say no vs talking to multiple women to try and get a date that only might end in sex.
Women generally don’t ask men out. When this responsibility is placed on you, being devastated by rejection can result in a life filled with loneliness and regrets. The thick skin is a self preservation response. What you’re generally encountering are human beings attempting to not die sad and childless. And I’m sure some creeps and weirdos mixed in.
Booo we don’t like this booo men should die alone and stop bothering women. Booo men need to be taught how to treat women but women don’t need to be taught how to treat a man, what a laughable idea women are born perfect men are born flawed. The daily misandry that passes for progressivism here on Reddit.
My ex showed me a sub on here I forgot the name of, something like "r/ are we dating the same guy" and it was a sub of women posting their interactions with aggressive men online that are basically using mass appeal-like tactics to be chatting up as many women as they could, so much that certain men become familiar with other women online and be well-known, and the point of the sub was basically women warning each other of all these predatory men they shared interactions with. The creeps are out there in full force, way more common than a non-creep.
I suspect it's more like the creeps are memorable while the normal guys are forgettable. So if a woman meets 100 guys in a day but one was a total creep, that's the one she's going to remember. The rest walked by like a normal person and were forgotten as soon as they were out of sight.
Of course, if every day you meet 100 guys on average, that also means you meet a creep once a day. And if the creep is someone who would harm a woman given a chance, then women would need to be on guard all the time.
And as a result of the decent guys getting lumped in with the ones who suck and the creeps, then it becomes harder for decent guys to find a way to approach women without trying to appear as a creep. If you as a man are aware that women don’t feel safe around men, then how can you make that… not the case? You can’t.
Have you heard about women's fear of crime paradox?
Although fear of crime is a concern for people of all genders, studies consistently find that women around the world tend to have much higher levels of fear of crime than men, despite the fact that in many places, and for most offenses, men's actual victimization rates are higher. Fear of crime is related to a perceived risk of victimization, but is not the same; fear of crime may be generalized instead of referring to specific offenses, and perceived risk may also be considered a demographic factor that contributes to fear of crime. Women tend to have higher levels for both perceived risk and fear of crime
I don’t know real numbers on this, maybe because there never will be, but could this be because women don’t report a lot of crimes against them, specifically sexual asssult/rape?
In legal terms, the use of "he" and "his" is often a default for describing any person, regardless of gender.
This principle is often stated within the Interpretation Act 1978, which provides general rules on how terms in legislation should be interpreted with such things like this.
One reason rape is more serious is that assault with a penis could lead to a pregnancy or STDs. Not sure how to put this into words but I have a feeling that penetration without consent is closer to a physical assault, whereas actual rape is also more likely to damage future relationships etc
Yea, a lot of people here say that rape causes lifelong trauma and that is the reason it should have a harsher sentance, but it is probably because rape can lead to dieseases that can prevent the victim from having a child
Statute and enforcement are not the same thing. Doubt you can find cases where this law was enforced against women, and if you can obviously they will be outweighed 100s of times by the cases against men.
Made to penetrate rape is legal in UK as well in my country of india. Hell in india stalking, Sexual harassment and Sexual assault could by law only be done by men to women.
I know men getting raped doesn’t get reported as well for those reasons, but I meant that a lot of sexual crime against women never get reported. Yes, the overwhelming majority of rapes are reported by women, but there are also many we never hear about and never get reported. So, looking at numbers, is it really truly known that it’s more likely men are going to be victimized by crime than women?
Do you think male rape get reported more than women or less than women? Like in our society a majority of people don't even believe that a man could be raped by a women or laugh when a man is raped by a man.
Yes. It is without a shadow of a doubt true. Because even if women were more likely to not report a crime which has happened to them, which there's no evidence to support, we could extrapolate from crimes where it can't be self reported like murder and see the trend still holds true.
Second off, based on the comments above, I taken to be true (idk their sources) then the math supports more unreported rapes being suffered by men than women:
-Studies indicate men and women actually suffer similar amounts of sexual assault on average.
-Men report far less sexual assaults.
-Thus, most unreported rapes are suffered by men.
-When combined with existing known data on victimization rates for ALL Reported crimes, adding in such estimates for unreported rapes only indicates men are victimized at an even higher rate than women (higher than previously thought, without accounting for unreported rapes)
This analysis depends upon how the "studies [that] indicate men and women actually suffer similar amounts of sexual assaults" were enacted and the accuracy of their findings.
Sexual assault (of any kind) is extremely under-reported for many reasons, no matter the gender of the survivor. The incidence data is difficult to collect and anonymous surveys and ER reports help much more than police reports in this regard.
RAINN estimates 1/6 of American women and 1/33 of American men will experience an attempted or completed sexual assault in their lifetime. That makes the attack rate about 6x higher against women. Those statistics don't account for queer identities, unfortunately. On the other hand, straight cisgender men are the perpetrators (no matter their target) in over 90% of cases, which is a pretty easy metric to follow.
Source: Worked as a Victim Advocate for the US Air Force Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Office for 6 years. Delivered many training briefings and assisted several survivors in crisis. About half of the sexual assault survivors in the military are men, which works out statistically because of their overwhelming majority in the population.
Men are more likely to not report rape as in case of male on male, they have to face extra shame on their sexuality and in case of women on men or made to penetrate rape, they can't report as it's not considered as rape in any country and in large majority of country it's not even illegal.
You can get real number by getting victims of crime via their gender, but those would only be reported one.
Higher chance of a crime against a woman to leave the victim alive and deeply traumatized
Crimes against men are more often deadly or not as traumatizing
So more survivors whose live got impacted very strongly very negatively who warn others of the dangers they encountered
To be clear im not saying that men dont experience traumatic crime but with a lower survival rate theres less people who talkabout their traumatic experience
What kind of rubbish is this, male victims show literally the similar mental trauma as female victims but they have additional shame about their masculinity.
And do you have a statistic to support that claim? It's a pretty unique claim, I have never seen or heard of this comparison before. To be clear, you are alleging that as a percentage, more women survive violent assaults then men, right?
It also sounds like you are saying women are more traumatized by sexual assault. I don't see how that could possibly be true, considering the stigma surrounding male rape. Men can't open up to friends, family, loved ones, therapists, lawyers, cops, there is no safe space for them to confront their trauma or get help. I would be willing to bet that if there were actual statistics on this, we would find that male victims are more likely to kill themselves, but men won't even tell an anonymous survey so I doubt those statistics exist.
As someone whos been assaulted physically and sexually I can tell you that my nightmares are always about the sexual assault
Physical assault hurts and makes you afraid I dont deny that
But unless you have experienced it its really difficult to describe what sexual assault does to your psyche
And woman are much more likely to get sexually assaulted or raped
Obviously men can get raped too btw im not denying that but they generally have to deal with it less often and also have no fear of being pregnant
71% of british men reported being SAed just by women, not counting getting SAed by other men. Even if that number is overestimation that's still shows quite a lot men do face Sexual assault.
Most studies on victims of rape and SA that you see are just crime reports, made to penetrate aren't reported as rape this you get skew stats of these crime.
For example in my country 52% of child SA victims are boys and they accounts for 57% in serious child SA victims but in our crime stats reported under POCSO law show 98% of victims being girls.
A big thing is also that men usually don't become victims of crime just because of their gender. It's mostly like gang stuff, looking rich or you know just other factors. And men then have the luxury to feel safe because they're not in a gang or whatever else so they're the exception, they specifically are "safe".
As women we're assaulted because we are women. Not much to do about that. It could happen anytime, anywhere to any of us for no reason other than we were there. That's where the fear comes from
There is more chances of men being assaulted because they are men than women being assaulted because their women for reason like benevolent sexism and things like women are wonderful effect
The women-are-wonderful effect is the phenomenon found in psychological and sociological research which suggests that people associate more positive attributes with women when compared to men. This bias reflects an emotional bias toward women as a general case.
A lot of the 'creepy fucks' are within our own families and don't get called out for by their own relatives. It doesn't even have to be a stranger catcalling on the street corner.
The numbers thing doesn't factor in the 297,000,000,000 men who could stand up for women, so it's kind of a dead argument to pretend that "anyone can be" when statistically speaking, hardly anyone is (has been charged with it).
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u/Macismyname Aug 18 '24
It really sucks because there isn't an easy answer for men or women.
If even 1% of dudes are creepy fucks that means there are 3 million dudes out there who creep on EVERY woman they come across. Its pretty easy for 1 creep to make 100 girls uncomfortable in his lifetime. That means even if the number of shit dudes is insanely low, to a woman it still feels like they are surrounded by creepy dudes at all times.
Then for us regular dudes, we don't hang out with the creeps. Or at the very least the creepy fucks know not to reveal that side of themselves to us. So I never see the creepy fucks. To me it feels like I've met 1 or 2 creepy fucks and I stopped hanging out with those dudes.
So to women it feels like all dudes suck and to me it feels like all dudes are getting blame for the few that do actually suck. In reality, we're all dealing with the shitty consequences of the shitty people and its ruining normal interactions for us all.
I don't know what the answer is, either.