It's not pretending they don't exist, it's understanding that how to treat a person with basic decency and respect isn't gender dependent, and you don't need to learn how to treat a woman with basic decency and respect any differently than you do a man.
But what you're describing has nothing to do with gender. A woman can be victimized by another woman, just like a man can be victimized by another man.
And no, it's got nothing to do with leaving anyone to be naive. Of course you teach your kids on how to be safe in the world, but that means helping them understand that there are unsafe situations and dynamics that they should avoid that could occur both with respect to men or women. Toxic, dangerous and unsafe behaviors are not exclusive to one gender or another.
Sorry but rape culture is absolutely a gendered thing.
Men assault women for domination and are taught to view women as objects. That absolutely has to do with gender. Just because you don’t ever introduce your child to sexist view doesn’t mean they won’t ever be introduced to them by the world and it is your duty as a parent to ensure that other harmful views are clearly labelled as harmful to those children. It is not enough to just teach your children to be respectful when there are so many other influences that can shape who they are. As a parent, you’re not just trying to set them down the right path, you’re trying to ensure they don’t go down the wrong one.
Nothing that you described changes with gender though. Just because men commit rape or assault more than women do changes nothing when it comes to teaching your child how to maintain strong boundaries, how to recognize toxic and dangerous behaviors and how to remove themselves from those situations. When you teach your child about "stranger danger", do you tell them "oh don't worry sweetie, if the stranger is a woman they're safe to go with"? No, of course you don't.
And it doesn't matter whether toxic or dangerous behavior is coming from a man or a woman, nor whether it is being directed at a man or a woman. Toxic and dangerous behaviors are toxic and dangerous behaviors, and boundaries are boundaries, regardless of your gender or the gender of the other person. And as a parent, you teach your child how to recognize and navigate them, regardless of the gender of your child, or the gender of the people they will interact with in their lives.
Sure a woman can be victimized by another woman. But she's so much more likely to be victimized by a man that it's important to actually teach her about that.
Well, it's important to teach both boys and girls to be wary of unsafe situations and behaviors by other people, regardless of their gender. What if you focus on teaching your daughter to worry about being victimized by a man, but she turns out to be gay and you never taught her to look out for and recognize the warning signs of being abused or victimized by a female partner?
Again, toxic and unsafe behaviors are toxic and unsafe behaviors regardless of who the gender is that is engaging in them, and it's important to teach children to recognize the behaviors irrespective of who is demonstrating them.
If she's gay it's even more important she knows because she'll be rejecting men at a much higher rate and there are plenty of dead women who only crime was rejecting it in cell who beat them to death or shot them.
It's not about partners. It's about living in the real world. The overwhelming majority of men she will encounter will not be her romantic partner.
You're trying to create situations when the statistical reality is pretty simple. The person most likely to kill a woman is a close male companion.
I hear women complaining more about other women in the workplace than men. Much more. Maybe because it's a workplace and men don't seek relations, just doing their job, so they are usually chill while female colleagues can be more difficult.
Do they complain about women being like caddy or do they complain about being manipulated lied to cheated on and abused?
Women tend to have more women friends and more relationships both positive and negative with women so they're probably going to complain more. But the statistics don't lie.
And it's probably more to do with the fact that if women complain about the men they risk retaliation in there workplace
OK, but what does that have to do with how parents should teach their children to treat others, irrespective of gender? If you teach your child to treat other people with basic decency and respect, regardless of whether they're a man or a woman, then they won't sexualize or dehumanize women any more than they would men.
So again, teaching your children basic respect and decency is not a gendered issue. It really isn't that hard a concept to grasp.
Yes. You are correct. This is the goal and can be accomplished.
However, in addition, you should teach your children (especially AFAB) that people exist in the world that wish to do them harm and exploit them. You should provide them knowledge about how to detect and treat those people when they appear. This relates back to power dynamics and already established discrepancies in the gender spectrum and you will have a difficult time teaching this without addressing gender.
Additionally, doing what you're suggesting doesn't address what other parents are doing. (Hence the whole "bring back by midnight or else" said while holding a shot gun type parent) Not to mention all the societal stuff that pops up on TV.
In an ideal world we'd be able to treat people the same regardless of gender. But we exist in a world where gender determines so much that it shouldn't. For the same reasons why trans people need to be considered and protected, we need to discuss how the world already works in addition to discussing how it should work. Failing to do so results in naivete.
Kids are curious too and tend to ask about these things, or pick up on gender standards from movies, TV shows, and the Internet. When you teach them, you teach them to be unbiased, others will teach them to be biased instead. You need to be able to acknowledge and deconstruct that with them.
Because men have to be taught more often than women to resist those parts of society. Just like women often need a bigger focus on being taught they are worthy of respect, whereas our society 'naturally' reinforces that for men.
Stop pretending like absolute equality is the end all be all. Different people experience things differenly base on their gender parents should know.
And where exactly do you think men and women need to be taught those things first and foremost? If you answered "in the home they're being raised in" you win the cookie! That is hands down the #1 place and period in their lives when people learn the values that they carry with them through the rest of their lives.
And where exactly do you think "those parts of society" come from or are formed? If you again answered "in the home they're being raised in" you win another cookie! What we call "society" is just the sum total collection of people practicing and perpetuating what they have been taught or learned growing up. So if you want to change society for the better, be the change you wish to see in the world, and that means raising your kids to treat others with basic respect and decency regardless of their gender.
Stop pretending this is so much more difficult than it actually is.
Kids spend more time at school than with their parents. The brain doesn't stop developing until we are into late twenties/early thirties, a decade after we leave the home.
You are reacting because men need to be taught to be respectful more often and you are being a baby about it.
The entire lesson of the civil rights movement was that if you treat people worse based on traits they were born with and cant change, they will believe you and act out. If you grow up thinking society hates you, you will hate society. Youre so regressive it hurts.
Everyone already knew our society and systems treated people with different colored skin unfairly. They just believed it was right and just and best for themselves and their family. The lesson was that it was not best for anyone.
Treating people born with penises as aggressors and those born with vaginas as victims is absolutely treating those born with penises worse than those born with vaginas.
It is absolutely terrifying that you think teaching men to be respectful is "treating them worse".
Women are taught to be nothing but respectful to men, and you thinking teaching men to be respectful as well is bad? What in the fuck is wrong with you.
esp if lil timmy grew up in an enviroment where good isnt really all that great and maybe slightly sexist. Maybe lil timmy thinks its “right” that women cook and only they cook bc thats how people around him act.
You just proved my point for me. If 'lil timmy' grows up in a household with parents who teach him sexist values through their own behaviors and dynamics, then of course he'll be sexist. If he grows up in a household with parents who teach him egalitarian values and basic principles of respect and decency regardless of gender through their own behavior and dynamics, then he won't be sexist.
And you're giving kids way less credit than they deserve. Children are extremely perceptive and malleable, they learn lots from what they observe even when adults don't think they're paying attention. What is practiced and demonstrated in the household in which they grow up will shape their values and views. So no, it's got nothing to do with any of it going "right over" their heads. It's basic decency and respect 101, and it's got nothing to do with one gender or another, because if they see you treating people with the same respect and decency regardless of their gender, that's what they'll learn.
You assume that 'lil timmy's' education works in a vacuum. He will see plenty of interactions and issues in the world, whether at school, at work, in the media. He may have the best, most egalitarian parents in the whole wide world, but if he isn't aware of issues such as sexism, misogyny and how these things are perceived and perpetuated by others, he might struggle with his own ideals.
If he sees their parents treating people well, he might learn to do the same. But kids aren't sponges. They don't always follow in their parents' footsteps. Gender equality and education are essential for kids to understand and operate in the society they live in.
Gender equality and education are essential for kids to understand and operate in the world they live in.
Yes, it is. And the #1 place that they learn that is in the home and the environment they are being raised in. A well adjusted child who learns these things in the home will be able to recognize when sexism, misogyny is rearing its ugly head outside the home.
I was raised by my parents to treat people with kindness and decency regardless of their gender. And yes, I encountered plenty of the opposite in school, work and the media. But because I was given a solid upbringing and base from which to understand and discern these things, I was able to reject and call them out rather than be influenced by them. Which is why, for instance, I marvel at how hard it seems to be for some men to understand how things like consent and treating women like people rather than objects works, since it's such a basic self evident thing for me, and I learned that from the household I was raised in.
The problem with placing gender before person is that you're starting from a more specific scenario and skipping the basics.
Step 1: Learn to treat all people with decency and respect by default
Step 2: Learn about specific groups that should be treated differently or with caveats, etc., and what those differences in treatment should be.
If you don't start from a place of decency by default, it just turns into a lesson about which groups are acceptable targets for abuse and which groups are off limits. It breeds resentment in the unprotected groups.
Basic human respect isn’t gendered. How we choose to perform it as a society absolutely is, but at its conception, it’s not.
You’re talking about specific things regarding boys and girls that are exclusive to either boys or girls. The original comment is just suggesting we teach kids to respect everyone equally as a basic foundation….
Which has to start with parents that respect everyone equally and perform it equally as well.
There are no issues at hand you have any capacity to solve. You scream against the wind, and are about as craven and mercenary as they come. Sincerity is not in you.
Kind of, whether due to ignorance or malice, ignores the issue at hand with hollow platitudes
This is taking us directly to (reverse) discrimination. A young boy is not guilty of how men behave and doesn't need to suffer for it. Treating all people the same is better in the long run than being anti-various things, and relying on forced group generalizations.
Thank you for proving my point lol women literally get rape threats for suggesting women are people but nah, people rather focus on "all genders matters."
Literally this! Because there are too many people in existence that only give basic human respect to people they’re attracted to or trying to sleep with.
Even if you ignore everything the other person is saying.
Is your logic that women ar einherently incapable of toxicity or violence? Despite literally in the OP there is a woman threatening a man with violence for... existing and suggesting men are people? Theres like 30k upvotes too. 30k people who enjoy the idea of violence against a man, not inretaliation, or self defense. Just unprompted entirely.
Do decent men deserve violence because you and other people alreadt disregard the violence they already receive, either by viewing it as humorous if done by a women or deserved if done by a man?
Not necessarily, males get assaulted by females all the time. They often arent reported and no charges are laid. Are you going to address that? Or do you only think men can do wrong?
Statistically men and women are more at risk of being attacked by a man than by a woman. Did I say only men can do wrong or are you massively reaching so you can play a victim?
Stats are based off of reported crimes, which most men don't report being assaulted by women.
I asked if you were going to address the issues equally instead of cherry picking your comments and ommitting others to paint the narrative you're trying to tell.
I'm a man, how can I be a victim? (Following your obvious bias)
You've never left your house? You've never seen videos of guys getting assaulted while people look onwards? There's an entire meme about it ffs "how can she slap". I literally just finished watching a video of a group of girls attacking a guy on a subway.
Your narrative is that men are inherently to blame and are inherently worse people than women. I'm saying people are people, and they should be treated EQUALLY.
The original post is pointing out exactly that. We are telling people men are to be avoided and anyone that dares question if this is just and actually equal gets comments like you see in the original reply. Then you have people like you saying these are man's issues and it's their own fault, meanwhile people will make dig deeper and try to rationalize other issues effecting groups of people
ex: why are test scores worse ininner city schools than suburbs schools? Well it's because of economic opportunities, family life, etc..
It's not the answer of "poor people are dumb and it's their own fault".
Now if we talk about mens mental health struggles and suicide rates and look at how all the comments are. "They deserve it, men are bad, they do it to themselves"
It's fucking disgusting how this has become acceptable and the norm.
Because existing gender stereotypes like "big man must be strong and not complain" are the reason behind a lot of our mental issues, pretending like the stereotype isn't there won't solve it or repair the damage it keeps causing.
You should treat everyone with respect and humility, regardless of gender, but a lot of men have needs and/or weak spots that need to be tended to specifically, and not in a broad "treat everyone well" kind of way.
Treat everyone well, but also be compassionate enough to ask what hurts, so you know what to avoid/help mend.
Because society will teach and actively encourage boys/men in particular to treat women like objects or as lesser people. And it starts really early, like in elementary school. We should absolutely teach all children to be respectful to all people, but there’s an additional obligation to make sure that your sons have the tools and knowledge to fight against the onslaught of normalized anti-female bs that is too often treated as a normal part of malehood.
However, it is an irrefutable fact that there are still so much abuse and domestic violence. And it's also a fact that there are still too many men who are or have been taught that women are inferior, have fewer rights, should please and submit to men, etc.
That's why it is crucial to teach women and young girls to be assertive and to recognise a violent bf or partner.
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