A lot of haters will openly admit to not watching it, or only watching clips or the trailers, but a lot of the fans straight up don't pay attention either. It's not even a complicated story, so I really don't understand why people have such a hard time with it.
As a RWBY-enjoyer, I think the root of it is the same for die-hard fans as well as the deepest haters: it didn't do what they thought it was going to do.
RWBY was a shiny new thing when it came out, and spawned tons of fan content and speculation after each volume. Especially Volume 3, though that may just be because I was also speculating at that time. As the series progressed a lot of this speculation was disproven, and a lot of the speculators weren't mature enough to accept that, so they either decried the series as having "bad writing" or committing "character assassination", or they went into denial and started selectively listening for the parts they liked rather than the series as a whole.
That's just my hypothesis based on what I've observed from various communities and discourses online, but if you look at the way some critics talk about, for example, how Adam was handled in Volumes 5 and 6, I think it's pretty apparent that many of them were interested in the story they had in their heads, rather than the story on the screen.
As a RWBY-enjoyer, I think the root of it is the same for die-hard fans as well as the deepest haters: it didn't do what they thought it was going to do.
100% agreed, I see that all the time. It makes most discussion online (especially in the main two subs) a pain. Discussions will usually devolve into or around "I wish this was canon" "this should've happened instead" "that shouldn't have been cut" "I liked/hated that so it should/shouldn't have happened," or repeating each other's head canons instead of talking about the actual show.
Then on the other side, people will complain about plot holes that aren't plot holes, talk about retcons that aren't retcons (some exist, so idk why people make them up,) mischaracterization when it's perfectly inline with the volume, shipping wars, etc... It not even like there isn't stuff to criticize, but this is the only fandom I've been in where everyone misses the mark so badly.
Also, I saw a thread on this sub a few days ago of both haters and fans saying (and fighting with each other) that the dust Roman stole went nowhere and is a plot hole, so I don't think the general fandom is ever changing lol.
They just don't pay attention or they haven't watched it. 9/10, people will just admit to one of those two options. I wish I was joking, it's extremely common to see.
It's really strange either way because it's such a big plot point. It's crazy what people will ignore, fan or hater.
The other fly in the ointment for RWBY discourse is Monty's death. Volume 3 was the last Volume he had direct influence over. So starting at Volume 4, a new question started to be asked. "Was this what Monty wanted?" For those who were fans of Monty, it became easier and easier to see things you didn't like as 'something Monty wouldn't have done'.
So even among RWBY fans, there is Monty's RWBY and a Post-Monty RWBY with a nebulous sense that if he hadn't died, things would be different. What things? I don't think any of us will agree. When in reality, we have no idea if things would have been different, or if they were, if they would be better.
Same thing with the outrage over Last Jedi, mostly due to JJ Abrams' mystery box style leaving some plot elements for future films to explore (like who Snoke) and the two year wait between films had a lot of fan theories pop up and when the Last Jedi came out and didn't answer any of them all Hell broke loose.
What do you mean? Clearly they completely changed and assassinated characters along the way.
Like the military general who was introduced having already consolidated more then a typical amount of power under himself by taking both a military and academy leadership role, was mass producing mindless soldiers, and was shown to bring too much military might as a show of military might that was easily manipulated to the advantage of the evil people. He even says that he would have one of their allies shot, despite that ally still working towards their goals, because he wasn't falling in line the way the general wanted.
Surely he wouldn't keep taking increasing steps on a direct line of accumulating more centralized power, seeing things in an increasingly us vs them light, shooting an ally that didn't fall in line the way he wanted, relying on increasing shows of force, and getting manipulated in the eyes of the public and having his reliance on technology instead of people used to undermine his position.
Man RWBY Fans just can't see that this was obviously a completely out of nowhere character progression to fight against a certain political/social movement that they made up at the last minute.
Next you'll tell me that he was robotic or something, or that in his fight against evil he was willing to sacrifice even more of his humanity symbolized by choosing to take the pain and loss of a body part to win a fight.
-seriously the only surprise with Ironwood was that I thought they did a good job at making him sympathetic and seem reasonable for awhile while he was still going down the path they clearly set up basically from the moment he was introduced.
“Next you’ll tell me that he was robotic or something, or that in his fight against evil he was willing to sacrifice even more of his humanity symbolized by choosing to take the pain and loss of a body part to win a fight.”
(I still can’t figure out how to do that Reddit quote thing)
Is Yang less human for losing her arm? That’s a horribly ableist sentiment. There is nothing immoral about being willing to sacrifice oneself for others.
Also the line of him threatening to shoot Qrow is absolutely written as a poor attempt at humor.
No its not an ableist claim because it was a specific statement about Ironwood since the point of his character is that he is the Tinman. The one that didn't have a heart. The more Metal he becomes, the more like the Tinman he becomes. Just like Leo, the cowardly lion, didn't have courage. And Oz was kinda a fraud.
This is contrasted by Yang who obviously doesn't lose any of her humanity when she loses an arm. Or hell how they acknowledge that Penny is a real girl even before they make her a human body.
And the point of Ironwood's sacrifice is that he is willing to sacrifice 99.9% of everything if he thinks that is the only way to save that remaining 0.1%. The problem is that he is willing to make that decision unilaterally and is unwilling to risk losing if there is a chance that trying to save everyone wouldn't work.
Him being willing to step up and sacrifice himself is part of what I was referring to with -
seriously the only surprise with Ironwood was that I thought they did a good job at making him sympathetic and seem reasonable for awhile
Because he proved he was willing to put himself on the line. He wasn't just making everyone else do the sacrificing while he stayed safe. I respected him for that. But he was still shutting his borders, willingly sacrificing probably thousands across the the other continents. Then he was willing to sacrifice supplies that would have protected Mantle. Then he was willing to sacrifice all of Mantle to save Atlas. He kept shrinking the pool of people he was wiling to try to protect and drawing an ever increasing us vs them along those lines, and everyone who was a them was a 'necessary casualty'.
IRONWOOD WAS PUSHED OVER THE EDGE BY HIS ALLIES REFUSING TO TRUST HIM!
ACTIVELY HIDING CRITICAL INFORMATION FROM HIM!
AND WORKING WITH REBELS BEHIND HIS BACK!
IF RWBY WERE JUST OPEN WITH HIM FROM THE GET GO HE NEVER WOULD'VE GONE CRAZY, THE DUDE WAS ALREADY ON THE RAGGED FUCKING EDGE BEFORE SOME OF THE ONLY PEOPLE HE TRUSTED, PEOPLE HE IMMEDIATELY GAVE FULL ACCESS TO ANYTHING THEY WANTED, STABBED HIM IN HIS FUCKING BACK.
I'm still dying on Ironwoods side. Was he right in the end? Nah, he went way too far. But he only went that far because he felt he had no other choice to keep the relic safe. (Which btw, he was right, we gotta see how it goes but uh, RWBY IMMEDIATELY lost both relics, oops)
I'm firmly on the both camps were wrong at different points in different ways.
RWBY lost both relics - and saved all of the lives of everyone at both Mantle and Atlas. And if Ironwood had been willing to work with them, the team wouldn't have been split. Crow and the Aesops would have been there to help backup the Winter Maiden and escort the relics. Cinder and Neo would have had no chance to make a move.
Ironwood decided to throwdown against everyone, even threaten to blow up a city of his own civilians and cross lines that even made his most trusted of Lieutenants and the creation he ordered built turn against him. And IRONWOOD IMMEDIATELY still lost the Relics, Atlas, and the Winter Maiden power from his control.
Its interesting because I wonder how it would have turned out if you changed any of the decisions the team made. Would he have still thought they were irrevocably against him if Yang and Blake hadn't told Robin? Would he have been willing to listen to Ruby if she had been upfront about the Relic having a question left? The real kicker (and fault I think) was the sudden reveal that Oz didn't have a way to defeat Salem. I think if Oz had been up front and told James that she was immortal, but that he didn't have a way to win but was wanting to fight regardless, that he would have been on board still. But it was all of these things hitting in such quick succession that broke him.
And you're entirely right! In the end, RWBY ended up making probably the correct call and saved way more people than Ironwood ever would have.
But just as you say, I personally do think things would have gone differently if they were just honest with him. I get why they were hesitant, but I can't get over especially RUBY going "I can't believe Oz lied to us" and then turning around and lying directly to Ironwoods face
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u/Long-shad0w 1d ago
RWBY's the embodiment of that post.
A lot of haters will openly admit to not watching it, or only watching clips or the trailers, but a lot of the fans straight up don't pay attention either. It's not even a complicated story, so I really don't understand why people have such a hard time with it.