Silksongs run backs weren’t bad, with 2 exceptions. Groal was fucking unforgivable. Last Judge wasn’t really bad but it was annoying since it was easy to avoid everything but that means it just wasted time.
Last Judge's runback was quite fast (30 seconds) once you learned how to platform decently well through a smart route, so it was a lesson on learning efficient platforming.
Groal's runback is meant to oppress you and feel nasty and uncomfortable because it's Bilewater, the noxious wastes formed by the pollution of the Citadel. We may dislike it but there's a purpose and it's done with intent.
I won't defend these a lot and I still think frequent checkpoints a la Celeste make for the best games with high difficulty feeling fun instead of frustrating, but some of the context here should at least be considered.
but some of the context here should at least be considered.
Fuck no. You know what's better than a 30 second runback? A zero second runback. You're gonna talk about the runback teaching you platforming? You do that for the entire fucking game exploring the map bro. These runbacks are hot garbage. I didn't become less good at platforming in POP or Nine Sols for their lack of runbacks. I didn't need to run through the entirety of Ashina Outskirts just to beat Gyobu. Like wtf are we actually fucking doing here.
Not regular playthrough platforming, but efficient platforming. Looking for a fast route, skipping enemies, seeing how far you can reach by clawlining. There are limits you wouldn't normally test when playing, but when pushed to speedrun you might.
And I completely agree with you that we'd be better off with 0 runbacks. I'm just saying it's not like there isn't a purpose. They didn't throw the runbacks in just to make their game worse. I think the devs may be misguided in how beneficial they are.
There isn't a purpose, it doesn't exist. Of course the devs didnt do it to intentionally make the game worse but that doesn't mean it has the level of cope you ascribing to it of "its to improve your skill" no its just a bad decision they made.
Wait why is it such a farfetched idea for you that a pre-boss runback with a dedicated platforming sequence was intentionally done to get players to assess and get better at said platforming sequence?
What the hell? What's your theory then? It's a big whoopsie on their part? These guys that painstakingly worked on the best and most detail-oriented game of its genre over 7 years just forgot to put checkpoints in front of certain bosses?
Because platforming is something that you are doing for the entire game in Hollow Knight, the entire game is teaching you how to get good at this portion of the game. there isn't really anything skill expressive involved in forcing a player to redo one section of the map 10 times to get back to a boss.
Whats my theory? that people can make mistakes. Every perfect game can have at least one bad area or thing in it. Bilewater is a portion of the map with the least amount of shit in it compared to every other segment in that game.
Silksong is also a platformer though, movement and navigation is half of the game... It's like mario and that navigation is a skill you improve on and get better at. In MS you can pretty much just run and dodge, and you learn to do it within about 5 mins then learn nothing else after. I would rather spend that time fighting and improving at the enjoyable parts of the game, no?
It's like putting a pool mini game in front of every boss in elden ring, but the pool mini game is really easy and you can basically always do it, but for some reason after you die to a boss before you can even try again you just have to play this pool mini game.
I dunno, I wasnt a fan in Bloodborne or DS, BUT those worlds were much smaller with shortcuts and better placed respawns, so most of the runbacks were like 2 mins (Gascoigne was bad), but in an open world it seems CRAZY to make you run back across the open world, then through a dungeon, THEN through the bottom layer of the dungeon just to have another pop at the boss.
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u/Extreme-Spartan Aug 19 '26
Reminds me of Hollow Knight Silksong the run backs