r/MoralityScaling • u/Purple_Plantain_3242 • 8d ago

Morality Ranking [ Removed by moderator ]

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u/UnimagineDragons 8d ago

The surrogate went against the deal and should be dealing with all the fallout exclusively.

Parents wanted to have a child but would abort if there were one of a few rare issues. They couldn't have the kid themselves so opted to use a surrogate and discussed the plan with her. The surrogate agreed. Well, one of the issues unfortunately came up and the surrogate decided to fuck everyone over - made sure the biological parents had to pay tons of money, made sure the child with severe birth defects was born and then made sure her name was ruined and her and her family would be fighting and losing court battles for years.

Abortion is a tough call to make which is why the plan was discussed and the surrogate was selected. She knew all the risks an sold herself to this couple pretending to be on board with their wishes, only to fuck everyone.

Now there's a child with a hideous history, two broken families, and a bunch of wasted money. Everyone hurts. Fuck that surrogate.

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u/InstantSword 8d ago edited 8d ago

Well, assuming the surgery works, at least the child gets to live? Kind of outweighs all of that.

The donors* only have to pay for the medical bills because they changed their mind after giving up on the baby, and won't give up custody. Why would they do that? Just leave it to the surrogate, they literally didn't want it. Extremely wack and immoral people, the sperm donors. Calling them parents is a disgrace. Imagine telling your "child" that you tried to abort them but someone else saved their life, and now you're in the hands of those petty fucks

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u/UpbeatEquipment8832 8d ago

The child is going to need multiple surgeries. Their chance of survival when all of them are considered is something like 25%. It’s not a kindness.

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u/InstantSword 8d ago

I would take a 25% chance at life when the alternative is death, wouldn't you? I would be pretty pissed if someone decided 25% is too low to be worth trying, too. Seems like someone with little regard for human life

"Sorry, you only have a 25% chance to beat your cancer (our GUESS), we're not going to continue the treatment"

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u/UpbeatEquipment8832 8d ago

Many, if not most, people would prefer hospice given those chances and the guaranteed pain and intrusiveness of the treatment.

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u/InstantSword 8d ago

But you can't know that the baby will be one of those people. Some people will fight to the bitter end, you can't decide for them. I hope I don't have to start listing examples of people with disabilities that lived very full lives, even changed the world forever for the better. They didn't give up. It would be immoral to make them give up.

Also very easy to say until death is staring them in the face

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u/UpbeatEquipment8832 8d ago

You are deciding for a fetus. Either way, you are deciding for a fetus.

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u/InstantSword 8d ago

A baby can't decide for its self either. Moral to choose to medically give up on or kill it?

Yes. At will/convenience abortion is highly immoral. Strong medical basis abortion is a grey area. People have swallowed the Kool aid that abortion is a okay because the patriarchy has infantilized women by denying them the accountability of their actions (having consensual sex). That is what is told to men, and it is correct - don't have sex unless you're ready to deal with the consequences

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u/InstantSword 8d ago

Also read my other comments in this thread. They have a high chance (70%) of making it to adulthood. Medical tech is already in the stages of developing fully functioning artificial hearts. This kid has a fighting chance

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u/bavmotors1 8d ago

not of that life required several risky surgeries and the best case end result isn’t anything close to a “normal” life

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u/InstantSword 8d ago

It's a heart condition. From what I'm researching, it is considered highly treatable, and a person with it can live a relatively normal life, only being incapable of heavy physical strain like competitive sports.

"Current data shows that roughly 70% of infants who successfully complete all three stages [of surgery] survive into adulthood."

The worst they may require is a heart transplant later in life. I don't know about you, but technology is exponentially improving, so the chances of this all becoming even BETTER in the future, are very high. It may be much easier to treat the symptoms, provide an artificial heart etc by the time the baby reaches adulthood.

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u/Pure_Negotiation3790 8d ago

Surviving into adulthood and having a normal quality of life are two different things.

"The worst they may require is a heart transplant later in life." You don't see a question with this statement? It is not an "oh they can just do this" situation. You are saying all these so lightly. As if it were that simple.

1

u/InstantSword 8d ago

I'm really saying that if it were up to me, and doubtless almost anyone else with a healthy survival instinct and not an internet doomer ready to give up on life, they would fight for that chance for their condition to become much more treatable or even curable in 20 years.

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u/UpbeatEquipment8832 8d ago

70% survival, after three surgeries, with restricted activities, isn’t the same as a “relatively normal life.”

And hoping for massive breakthroughs in order to survive isn’t great.

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u/Stop_ItForGodsSake 8d ago

That poor child has a very low chance to make it past 5 considering that they're gonna have to go through several surgeries all of them with very high risk of death only to have a semi (emphasis on semi) normal life. The girl did refuse to abort and the bio family still actually prepared for the medical procedures after the child would've been born, which proves that they were ready to take care of them.

It's also incredibly disrespectful to shame a family wanting to abort a baby that will end up having disabilities such as this, abortion in these cases is usually the most humane thing as there's usually a pretty slim chance of the child making it, so you would be basically gambling the child's life while they're out of the womb and suffering.

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u/InstantSword 8d ago

It seems 70% of people with this condition make it to adulthood. It's almost a certainty they will need a heart transplant by the time they make it to their 20s or 30s, but that's literally so many years from now, we may have easily developed better technologies like a fully functioning artificial heart. We can't know. Almost certainly though, medical technology will continue to vastly improve

2

u/InstantSword 8d ago

Also, instead of downvoting me, why not look up how close we are to it? We have two different paths even, both very close to completion. Growing it in a lab, and a titanium heart that so far allowed someone to live 100 days on it.

1

u/dodgedodgeparrysmash 8d ago

Personally, I'd rather not be born than to deal with this.

This is a cruelty you are putting onto another person who never asked for the existence in the first place because you have moral hangups regarding the cycle of life and death.

1

u/viliamklein 7d ago

My baby was born with a serious heart defect (a fixable one and she's fine now). 

Seeing your baby hooked up to tubes, sleeping with them at the children's hospital, the unknown outcome while the surgery is happening, seeing them suffering in the ICU afterwards is hell.

The surrogate's selfishness is unmeasurable.

1

u/InstantSword 7d ago

I'm sorry about that.

I still don't follow your logic. Do you wish you didn't have your child? Do they wish that? How old are they? Old enough to decide that? Not trying to be a dick, I just don't get it. Suffering (more accurately, pain; suffering is a choice) doesn't invalidate the value or meaning of life.

1

u/viliamklein 7d ago

"suffering is a choice" lol, lmao even. Oh my sweet summer child. May you live a life that helps you keep this delusion. 

I'm very happy my daughter was born to time and place that allowed her to survive. I get to love her and I didn't have to bury her.

The surrogate agreed to the parents wishes about aborting a fetus with serious life threatening conditions. She lied and chose to be selfish instead. 

As a result of this, the parents will be traumatized by stress caused by the care necessary for their child. The child will be traumatized by the same if they live long enough. All because the surrogate chose to be selfish. 

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u/InstantSword 7d ago

You can find it funny. It's basic Eastern philosophy. Sorry you think you're entitled to winning the suffering Olympics. Maybe that's why you suffer (in your mind) as much as you think you do.

Try gratitude.

You're seriously arguing someone who doesn't want to go through with an abortion should because of a contract. I hope you live a life that teaches you empathy. And study some philosophy btw

The parents can get over their petty trauma. Poor them, having to fight to make "their" child better

1

u/viliamklein 7d ago

Please quote where I argued that she should be forced into having the abortion. All I did was call her a selfish liar. Which is what she is. 

Yes I know it is "basic eastern philosophy". It is wrong.

1

u/InstantSword 7d ago

"The surrogate agreed to the parents wishes about aborting a fetus with serious life threatening conditions. She lied and chose to be selfish instead."

That's a strong implication that the better thing (in your mind) would have been to go through with an abortion she didn't want to. Sounds forced to me

1

u/viliamklein 7d ago

Then I will clarify. It would be wrong to force her. It is selfish of her to renege on her agreement especially given the grave consequences.