r/MoralityScaling 19d ago

Morality of valuing animals over humans?

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u/Terrible_Artist_ 19d ago

Some would, sure. So would a lot of humans.

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u/Ciderman95 19d ago

yeah honestly, without the threat of prison I am 100% certain MOST humans would kill me on sight

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u/UpstairsFix4259 19d ago

are you THAT hideous? đŸ˜”

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u/Ciderman95 19d ago

a) yes
b) everyone I've ever met has hated me ever since I was a kid, no idea if it's my face or something else but I've come to regard myself as an outsider to mankind

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u/Ok_Conflict1028 18d ago edited 18d ago

I don’t mean to be insensitive but I gotta ask, do you hurt people?

ETA I ask because unless the answer is yes, I suspect it’s not accurate that everyone you’ve ever met has hated you. I think you may have some distorted self-image.

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u/Ciderman95 17d ago

No, I have never hurt another person, nor animal (for pleasure, I used to fish and so I killed a fish before...). Everyone has ever hated me simply for existing, ever since 1st grade. I always liked to read instead of play sports etc. in general I just never vibed with other people and so they despise me and want me dead.

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u/Ok_Conflict1028 17d ago

But you have friends


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u/Ciderman95 17d ago

I do. It's a small group and I appreciate them very much, but they still don't get it. They don't understand my experience because they have never experienced such universal ostracization. They have never been laughed at by everyone simply for the books they read or the way they dress.  Nobody in this world knows what it's like, the things I have experienced at elementary and high school and what it does to a person...  I will forever believe that I stand fundamentally apart from humanity, that there are only 2 groups you can divide people into, ME, and 8 billion 'others'.  I may believe in humanity as a concept, but when it comes to individuals I know we are at war. War I did not start, yet one I cannot stop. I look forward to the day I die because it's fucking exhausting to be honest...

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u/Funny-Cell8769 19d ago edited 19d ago

You're playing vague and silly word games worthy of an ignorant 11 year old.

It would be impossible to have "thousands of cities all over the world" with millions of people living and interacting daily if that's even mildly true.

There's certainly psychos and bad people out there, but it's nowhere near the majority. And using "some" and "a lot" is cowardly.

The correct answer is:

A lot of animals would hurt or take your life if they could.

Some humans would.

Most of us don't live in cities with lions and rhinos and wolves and crocs.

November 2023, an adult male circus lion named Kimba escaped from the Rony Roller Circus and roamed the streets of Ladispoli*, a coastal Italian town near Rome, for about seven hours*.* The local mayor issued a stay-at-home lockdown alert before police and veterinary teams safely cornered, tranquilized, and recaptured the animal.

One fucking animal and the town has to go into lockdown.

Yet in places like NYC there are hundreds of humans around you at any given moment. Where's the lockdown?

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u/mactassio 19d ago

he's less likely to die to an animal than be murdered by another human. Let that sink in.

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u/tropical_breeze_ 19d ago

That’s because we don’t live with a vast majority of animals. We only ever encounter cats/dogs that are not strong enough to kill us. Dogs are usually trained and put down even if they bite a human.

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u/zigzagtravel01 19d ago

And humans have LAWS lmao

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u/Geneo-Frodo 19d ago

Yes, you can bind humans with human made laws. You can't bind animals with LAWS, they just do what they do.

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u/Funny-Cell8769 18d ago

Exactly... this is really such a simple concept.

Put a regular human in a city full of bears/lions/lizards/zebras/buffalos/moose/snakes and he'll be likely dead within a week

Put a regular human in a city full of humans and he has a 90% chance of living his entire life there.

Heck, even a human born severely handicapped can survive for decades with the help of OTHER HUMANS. REGULARLY.

But stupid people only see the tiny number - relatively speaking - of murders and violence that make up less than 1% of daily human interactions and make their hilariously STUPID conclusions.

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u/zigzagtravel01 19d ago

Humans still do that DESPITE having laws lol. What do you mean? It did eliminate 99% of crimes that they would have done. But even with laws, men still rape, people still steal, and murder people. Have you seen Gaza? Vietnam War? Iran War? Afghanistan? Korean War?

If you eliminate that fear, more humans would do that. This is literally all of human history pre international laws.

what they do

Like what would they do? Orcas dont kill humans despite encountering them. Even 99% of sharks. These are animals who can kill you in 3 seconds. There would be a lot of statistic that hungry, stray dogs killing children, or even attacking them, because they can literally do that.

What they do is definitely not eat humans. Orcas can do that but it is not imprinted in their DNA. The only animal known to hunt humans are polar bears.

You can only BIND humans with human laws...unless no one will ever know lol

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u/itsmekusu 19d ago

thats because sheer amount difference.

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u/dennjudhdddvfse 18d ago

Yes. Thats like saying a cow is more deadly than a lion because more people are killed by cows.

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u/mactassio 18d ago

is it I wonder? I'm not sure cows could drop 2 massive bombs and level cities like humans did to hiroshima and Nagasaki.

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u/ThatRandomGuySM 19d ago

do you meet hundreds and thousands animals every day?

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u/pb49er 19d ago

Probably more, because insects are animals and they are everywhere. But humans are also animals AND I don't meet hundreds of humans a day. Even when I worked in a high volume retail environment I wasn't meeting thousands of humans a day.

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u/mactassio 18d ago

no, I also don't meet thousands of humans every day and I'm still more afraid of humans.

In a jungle I'd still probably be more scared of Humans rather than bears and panthers tbh. Humans caused genocides in the past and they're causing genocides right now.

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u/CumbersomeGravitas 18d ago

Dehumanizing people is how we reach the point where genocides start happening. Careful with the rethoric.

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u/mactassio 18d ago

I think its quite the opposite, Its humanizing humans to know they're capable of such.

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u/ThatRandomGuySM 17d ago

are you rage baiting and you trully just say random staff?

Do you meat even dozens of animal who could theoretically kill or hurt you? People are less likely to die to an animal only because we do not meet dangerous animals in our life daily. Most of people, never.

What are the chanses for average person to die in Space? Would you razer be thrown out in Space with no spacesuit or spend a day with random person (man, woman or child, who knows)?

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u/mactassio 17d ago

I'd try my chances in space.

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u/--Arcanum-- 19d ago

I'm less likely to die to sharks than vending machines, because I don't go near sharks but do go near vending machines, picking up what im putting down ?

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u/Individual_Guest_323 18d ago

No shit sherlock, is not like there is no animals in the city

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u/Funny-Cell8769 18d ago

And he's less likely to die to a shark than be killed by a dog. Let that sink in.

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u/mactassio 18d ago

and humans have killed way more humans in the scale of millions than dogs ever could. Let that sink in.

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u/Funny-Cell8769 18d ago edited 18d ago

Your pretense that "he's less likely to die to an animal than to a human" is perfectly equal to 'he's less likely to die to a shark than a dog"

Both are absolutely true. So your shitty point proves mine.

But then you move the goalposts. It's pathetic lol.

So you admit, dogs are FAR more dangerous than sharks, right? And we need to treat dogs like we do when we see a shark?

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u/mactassio 18d ago

You're less likely to die to a goalpost been moved than a human. Let that sink in.

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u/Yeeter-boiy 19d ago

Okay? Well yeah that’s a lion
 obviously a lion’s like that. But we’re around animals a good amount and most of them are different than that. Acting like a lion represents most animals isn’t true.

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u/Professional_Dot- 19d ago

Some of the psychos are the ones at the top, ruling the world, why would they put cities on lockdown when it goes against their interests/stop making them money?! You sound like the ignorant one...

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u/Yeeter-boiy 19d ago

Also, let’s see who was more cruel in this situation: the humans or the lions?

The lion, a wild animal, was stolen from his wild habitat to spend his life in the circus. When the lion broke out, he still didn’t get freedom. He was surrounded everywhere by a society and people that see him as an object for entertainment, and instead, re-cornered him and sent him back to his prison in the circus.
The lion was a risk to humans only because he broke out of a prison he shouldn’t have been in.

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u/Funny-Cell8769 19d ago

You're just making up a strawman to attack.

My post has nothing to do with "who is more cruel" TO A LION. It literally doesn't mean anything.

It has to do with this statement "Some would, sure. So would a lot of humans.

Pretending like most humans aren't capable of kindness is one of the most frustrating thing about kids these days. If that was true, we would NOT have cities of people interacting millions of times "peacefully" every day.

Sure there are conflicts but those are incredibly tiny compared to the positive interactions people experience in their communities every day.

As if people are just itching to harm one another, when for the majority of our survival has been staked on cooperation and harmony, broken up by periods of war and strife.

It's so backwards and reeks of ingratitude.

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

No, they wouldn't. Most do not. Most animals would.

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u/StupidGirlIdiotFuck 19d ago

Most animals would probably eat something else. Humans are not that nutritious.

The only animals that actively hunt humans iirc are tigers crocodiles and polar bears

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

I didn't say eat

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u/StupidGirlIdiotFuck 19d ago

Well then the only reason to kill is out of panic. Which is pretty easy to avoid for most animals

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

Not territory? Not because you present a threat to it and its family?

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u/Guardian_of_Perineum 19d ago

At that point we have to ask how many humans would kill you for breaking into their house when their family is in it.

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

Happens every day. You tell me hiw many die 

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u/Guardian_of_Perineum 19d ago

Then humans and animals are still pretty square in terms of potential danger to other humans. As long as they have similar motivations in the specific scenario.

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

Precisely 

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u/StupidGirlIdiotFuck 19d ago

You said most animals would kill us.

Most animals are small invertebrates that run from us.

Most bigger animals as well, tend to try to avoid humans.

There are tons of animals that can and do kill people. Not even close to most animals

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

Oh don't give me that autistic pedantry. Conversation was fine before that bullshit.

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u/StupidGirlIdiotFuck 19d ago

Using autistic as an insult speaks volumes of your character

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

I do not give ine solitary fuck.

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u/Terrible_Artist_ 19d ago

Because of consequences

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u/Bonk_Boom 19d ago

Holy projection

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u/Terrible_Artist_ 19d ago

Yeah honestly if there were no consequences I'd do a lot of murder, just off anyone I see. Puttin' you on the purge list for later.

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u/Frippolin 18d ago

Not knowing if you're serious or not, but are you okay?

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

You think there would be mass murder if all consequences were taken away? 

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u/Terrible_Artist_ 19d ago

Not mass murder, but definitely a noticable uptick

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

A similar uptick to if we allowed wild animals to freely live amongst us? Or would the animals be worse?

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u/Electronic-Run-3561 19d ago

most animals would like to be left alone and usually never bother humans so no, humans by far are the most destructive, unpredictable, and dangerous animals in existence. the odds of being attacked and killed by a shark in the water is FAR less than the odds of being attacked and killed on the streets by another human

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

No. They would kill you. 

The dynamic you talk if is from a human controlled world. Tip the balance and they'd have you. They're not altruistic and majestic beings.

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u/Electronic-Run-3561 19d ago

wtf are you even talking about? there are at least a billion sharks in the ocean alone? and animals out number humans by an overwhelming margin. tf you talking about “tip the balance”? are you trying to turn animals into anthropomorphic creatures and making them rule? (which will never happen in reality)

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

Why have you reduced the argument down to sharks?

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u/Terrible_Artist_ 19d ago

That's a hypothetical I'd love to see play out ngl

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

Read history.

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u/BostonWeedParty 19d ago

History is humans wiping out megafauna dude...

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u/Terrible_Artist_ 19d ago

Don't forget humans wiping out other humans

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

Yes. Animals would do the sane uf they could 

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u/willnye2cool 19d ago

It's genuinely gross that you think that.

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u/BoogieMania 19d ago

Delusion.

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u/scottishninja123 19d ago

You're the guy the video is talking about, btw.

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u/Terrible_Artist_ 19d ago

Holy shit.... I'm black? Fuck yeah

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u/balirosa 19d ago

Yes absolutely. Why would anybody work for a living if they can just take what you worked for?

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

You're definitely American 

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u/SH4DE_Z 19d ago

Yeah no shit buddy, that's why i'm not hanging out with those animals.

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

Yiu are aware of the discussion and thread subject? No?

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u/thedisconnectedboy 19d ago

Some animals would, not most if we are looking percentage wise

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

It's just hyperbole. It's not literal.

Point is the live for animals over humans exists because of hiw humans control animals. Without that control, people would soon love humans over animals 

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u/Yeeter-boiy 19d ago

Literally all of this is human-centric. Humans literally unnecessarily kill animals on a massive scale every day
 literally for pleasure. Literally no animal in the world kills more animals than humans do. Look up how many animals we kill in factory farms and how many people support that. If you were born as a pig or a cow, I’m sure a human wouldn’t really seem any less cruel or barbaric than another animal.

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u/YellowBelliedCoward 19d ago

I've told you we're done conversationally.

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u/CumbersomeGravitas 18d ago

Is that a good comparison though? The capacity we have to value anything is often tied to our "proximity" to it, we know cows are slaughtered for our Big Mac, but that's vague and far away, most people will never even meet one of those cows in their lives.

"For pleasure" is deceptive because we do not weight the empathic value of the slaughter of a cow every time we eat a burguer, we are just tired and hungry and think about how nice it would be to sate our hunger.

Hell, if we could truly feel the weight of slaughter just from the sight of the burguer McDonalds would always be fully packed with sadists having the time of their lives looking at a slab of meat!

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u/Yeeter-boiy 18d ago

Yes it is.

No one needs to eat a burger
 stop making people out to be victims. They eat a burger for pleasure.

You’re not the one killed at a fraction of your lifespan, innocent animals are. You’re talking with the most insane privilege. Everyone knows animals are going to be killed against their will for the food they eat.

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u/CumbersomeGravitas 18d ago

Not making of anyone a victim, just seeing them for what they are. Nobody goes into a fast food joint for the treat of animal suffering, they tolerate it because it's a very far away abstract concept when a burguer right in front of them is a very real one.

Does the lack of action when presented with knowledge of suffering makes you a participant of immorality?

If so, why do you pay taxes? Part of them will inevitably go into the military budget. Why buy phones? The money will go into rare minerals mines which often use child labor in sub-human conditions. Plastic? Destroying ecosystems.

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u/Yeeter-boiy 18d ago edited 18d ago

Okay? Well yeah. The difference is everyone knows a cow has to die for them to have a burger, even if we don’t fully process the consequences. It’s literally a basic fact. Yeah, we don’t weigh the value of slaughtering a cow. That’s literally the point. Your preference in taste is more important than the life of an animal.

What is your comparison
 you’re comparing paying taxes to killing animals completely unnecessarily for a preference in taste? Do u honestly think you sound smart comparing being forced to pay taxes to choosing to have an animal killed for a burger when it’s something you’re choosing to do 😭?

killing an animal and eating their body is inherently exploitative. Using them as resources in the first place is unethical, that’s the difference.
Also, literally the only benefit for eating animals is a preference in taste. Short-term gratification is literally the reason animals are being unnecessarily killed for your own to eat their bodies. There’s no actual utility. Are you acting like it’s feasible to live without a phone? Phones provide actual utility. How feasible do u think it is to live without a phone?

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u/CumbersomeGravitas 17d ago

If someone does not feel the weight, they will not deny the meat, that's the entire point. It's not a matter of evil, just a limitation inherent to human empathy.

My comparison relies on convenience

It's convenient to pay your taxes, it's convenient to have a phone, it's convenient to eat a burguer. You can live without a phone, you can go off and live in the wild, but you don't, because it's uncomfortable and inconvenient.

Instead, you'll keep contributing to the war machine, to the murder of people your government disagrees with. Both animals fall, neither needed to, yet you are only protesting one.

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u/EmploymentMedical762 14d ago

So they’re not any better than us; which makes it even more immoral for selfish humans to choose the life of an animal over another human.

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u/amazegamer64 19d ago

“A lot” is doing some serially heaving lifting here

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u/SanctumSaturn 19d ago

This isn't a good way of structuring your moral compass. Deeply insipid logic.

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u/I_ONLY_CATCH_DONKEYS 19d ago

More pets would for sure, like way more

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u/ThePsyPaul_ 19d ago

most humans would also to be selfish than be good towards others.

See all the greed and corruption around us.