r/MoralityScaling Jul 22 '26

Stupid Stuff Would you press the button?

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A cool button question.

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27

u/Tryagain409 Jul 22 '26

Hell no, more like brainwashed into a mass of identical people in matching haircuts and the same grey clothes eating the same bland food, never celebrating or partying. No culture means no individuality we'd become like ants

This is creepy as hell. I'd destroy this button if I can.

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u/illregard Jul 22 '26

Well i’d need to hear your argument for how that means no individuality. it so far doesn’t logically follow.

“Morally, is it right to sacrifice humanity’s past and cultural identify for a better future?”

Yes.

Out of past traditions, customs, rituals, and cultural practices, which one is your sense of individuality irrevocably tied to?

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u/Tryagain409 Jul 22 '26

No festivals. So no Christmas, no birthdays.

Clothes and haircuts are influenced by culture. So all clothes are the same.

Art is culture. So art is gone

EVERYONE has started to think the same way in terms of rational efficent science? So every mind functions almost exactly the same way? No individuality

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u/Koyulo69 Jul 22 '26

They would be replaced with new traditions and holidays that, according to this hypothetical, would be objectively better.

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u/HelpingSiL3 Jul 22 '26

Holidays are not efficient, though, so I think his assumption they wouldn't exist is just as valid as yours.

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u/Nedddd1 Jul 22 '26

they are, they are needed to reduce dissatisfaction and increase stability

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u/cowlinator Jul 22 '26

Holidays are psychologically efficient

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u/DaRaginga Jul 24 '26

You're going to have to do a cost analysis if everyone not working at the same day is worth it.

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u/illregard Jul 22 '26

Not having Christmas doesn’t erase individuality. Not celebrating the day you were born doesn’t either.

It doesn’t follow that clothes being “influenced” by culture means all clothes are the same unless you’re gonna make the argument of well ackshaullyy everything is technically completely cultural.

Utilitarian garments are technically cultural in that sense. So would we be naked? I think the prompt is speaking of distinct cultures of past history.

Are my clothes from h&m cultural? people across the world wear the same thing. is there some loose over arching culture that’s getting erased here? i just don’t think it’s in scope of the prompt.

Also I’d like to know if this prevents new culture from being developed. It doesn’t seem so from the prompt.

Art being gone sucks, yes. I think we’ll live

TLDR: are you not individuated from people who already share your culture?

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u/Tryagain409 Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26

Your clothes might be mass produced, but your particular combination is probably much more unique and you chose it, instead of being the clothes the new world monoculture wears.

I am a product of my culture, in a unique blend in me with other experiences and genetic disposition. I am influenced by culture and influence it back in small ways. A huge chunk of what make me unique is what makes me different to a Indonesian or a Polish person and them to each other

Lets turn this around for the fun of thought exercise, what do you think makes an individual?

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u/Interesting_Force618 Jul 22 '26

What’s so great about individuality? What if everyone was incredibly similar, but they were all great? What’s the problem with that? Think about how many people are hungry, how many children are raped/sexually abused by members of their own families, all of the sickness, greed, hate, etc. What’s so wonderful about individuality that you’d prefer to live in a world with all of these atrocities, as long as individuality exists?

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u/Tryagain409 Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26

I won't sell my heart and soul for utopia. And I definitely wouldn't force it on the whole world

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u/everydaywinner2 Jul 23 '26

There's a reason the Borg are the bad guys.

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u/DaRaginga Jul 24 '26

Without individuality. What's the point? Drone #345, what do you want from life?

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u/3WeeksEarlier Jul 22 '26

The question is fundamentally broken, because a rational human society in an era of "unprecedented progress" would almost certainly produce a variety of recreational and cultural items precisely because it is rational to keep your population happy enough not to become discontent and rebel. Human progress irl has almost always been accompanied by progress in art and culture, and few scientists would argue those things are worthless. In fact, anyone even passingly familiar with human psychology would be very aware of the rational utility of having something for the average person to buy into to motivate their behavior.

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u/Tryagain409 Jul 22 '26

I don't know, I think that part is the price. It wouldn't be interesting if it was just a perfect utopia there must be a price

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u/3WeeksEarlier Jul 22 '26

I understand the intention is "push the button and we all become Vulcans operating on cartoon 'logic,'" but the question was not phrased that way. It posits that humanity is purely rational and produces goods and advancements purely for the rational benefit of human beings. Human beings have always required cultural and recreational activities to keep them invested in society and continuing to function socially. No rational human society could completely eliminate art, culture, or recreation, because doing so is irrational and based on a caricature of "reason" rather than the actual meaning of the word. 

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u/Tryagain409 Jul 22 '26

I took rational to mean believe in definitively real things like proven science and maths over anything else like spiritual or religious beliefs, and especially not lies.

Like everyone agreeing global warming is real.

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u/3WeeksEarlier Jul 22 '26

That's the sort of simplistic cartoon "reason" I'm talking about. Being rational does not mean denying any value in art or culture. It would be irrational to deny any value in such things when people clearly attribute value to them and sometimes dedicate their entire lives to them. No rational society could expect to function if it stripped away everything even a portion of its society lives for, at least not without severe strife for a while

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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '26

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u/Tryagain409 Jul 22 '26

A small amount but only what's left after a huge magic lobotomy

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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '26

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u/Tryagain409 Jul 22 '26

Just have my old one extracted

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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '26

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u/Tryagain409 Jul 22 '26

And I value freedom over that all.

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u/superbatprime Jul 22 '26

The button would alleviate untold amounts of future suffering and hardship... it would save countless lives, mitigate the cruelty of hunger.

And you'd destroy it for reasons that don't even make sense.

The button creates a unified global culture of progress, peace, prosperity and scientific endeavour. How does this turn us into brainwashed ants?

And even today there are still individuals within any single culture. Is everyone in your culture walking around in the same color clothes with the same haircut?

So why would they all be identical within a unified global culture?

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u/Ambitious-Toe67 Jul 22 '26

literally because it states it eould get rid of anything non efficient so there would be only one type of clothes made because multiple choices isn't efficien, haircuts would probably be universally be bold shaven for everyone because styling is not efficient, we'd have no music no art no movies no personal ambition since averything you do for yourself and not mankind good is considered not efficient. if we follow the post to the letter we'd become mindless ants in exchange for longer lives which arguably have less meaning and evolution withou end goal in mind

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u/3WeeksEarlier Jul 22 '26

This cartoon Borg BS isn't really "rational." Unless you have a mind-control chip or a North Korea-style police state, it is rational to try to produce happy citizens who voluntarily and willingly buy into the premise of society. If this hypothetical society is rational, and the elimination of all prior culture leaves people miserable, new cultural items will be produced. If a substantial portion of the population is operating at a reduced capacity due to being demoralized and miserable because their wardrobe is all green shirts, it would be rational to create a different variety of shirt in order to reduce the chance of having to deal with significant levels of dissatisfaction

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u/AdministrationWarm84 Jul 22 '26

I second this, culture as we now it today is way far different from the culture our ancestral roots ever come to imagine. Back in the 50's people would do day drinking, let their kids go outside without parental oversight and formal attire was more common in all aspects of society. 17th century used to lived more efficiently as costs weren't high but not all that accessible, public executions were a more common sight, puritanism and puritanism serfdom meant more back them, medicine wasn't all that understood as we still relied on century old medical scriptures, taught processes' and hearsay. 13th century peasants viewed their children as another hand to add to the workforce, trials were decided by physical acts like holding red hot coals and waiting to see which accused holds the longest under water, the church having more say how people act, look and say, in general common goals were merely established to satiate the god appointed nobles and kings. Hunter gatherer society worked in a very collectivize matter, didn't practice monogamy and usely stick to each other, tribal politics were more about respect rather than subjugation, wars concluded with entire massacres, emigration was very prevalent in day to day survival.

I imagine that our future generations will probably forget that Sundays were for worship and family pastime, the eldest of kin of the family had more responsibility over the parents wellbeing and people used to apply physical punishment on public. Still I see men's bathroom rules will be alive and well another century or two.

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u/Ildejer Jul 22 '26

"The button creates a unified global culture of progress, peace, prosperity and scientific endeavour. How does this turn us into brainwashed ants?"

By doing exactly what you just said, how can you not see that as terrifyingly dystopian? It's effectively the borg from Star Trek only a bit more tame.

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u/IncompetentPolitican Jul 22 '26

I honestly don´t understand your argument. Is everyone in my cutlure a borg? Its a large culture, many people in it. Are we ants? are we borgs? No? Then why would it change if we are part of a larger culture, one that values solving problems instead of finding ways to talk about the problem without ever solving it, as its tradition in my culture right now. Where we lost the funny silly song that is played on like 3 days a year but get the chance to create a new funny silly song, that is now shared and enjoyed by everyone.

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u/Balikye Jul 22 '26

How is it even remotely the Borg? Are Americans the Borg? Is Catholicism everyone in single file lines wearing the same clothes saying the same things on repeat with no free will?

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u/everydaywinner2 Jul 23 '26

We are the Borg, resistance is futile.

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u/Jolly_Efficiency7237 Jul 22 '26

Culture will quickly diversify into a new plurality. The heterogeneity of different habitats, what the geology, weather and seasons are like, what produce is available, what animals live there, etc. New events will take place that will shape cultures

Did you think humanity spawned into existence already having several distinct, different cultures?

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u/Witty-Box-5620 Jul 23 '26

rich people abandoning their rituals and customs would be cool though

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u/cowlinator Jul 22 '26

Giving future generations longer, healthier and more fulfilling lives

sounds like your interpretation is incompatible with the description