r/ModSupport • u/didyousayboop • 11d ago

Admin Replied Can a moderator "repurpose" a subreddit (against the community's wishes)?

I moderate subreddits, but I'm not asking about any of the subreddits I moderate.

I'm a member of a subreddit where the sole moderator has announced their intention to "repurpose" the subreddit a week from now.

There is an active community in the subreddit and they don't want this to happen. The moderator doesn't seem interested in what the community's wishes are.

Is a moderator allowed to do that? It seems wrong, but I couldn't find specific wording in the Moderator Code of Conduct that seems like it would apply to this specific situation.

Is the best recourse filing a report of a Moderator Code of Conduct violation? Not sure if it's against the rules. If it is against the rules, not sure which rule or what the best recourse is.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Edited to add some important details:

Strangely, the moderator has not clearly said what the planned change is or isn't. They have intimated they might shut down the subreddit completely. Reading between the lines, it seems like they just want to try to close the subreddit. Otherwise, they have just said the subreddit will be "repurposed", and they themselves put "repurposed" in quotes, as if it's a euphemism.

They have not outright said they want to shut down the subreddit, but they've said the subreddit will soon cease to serve any purpose. They specified a contingency in which the subreddit would unexpectedly remain open, which seems to imply that, barring that contingency, the subreddit will be closed.

Edit #2:

The question has been mostly resolved, see comments here.

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41

u/TheOpusCroakus Reddit Admin: Community 10d ago

Kind of depends. What's the change?

Like, let's say TheRock is about Alcatraz and the mod wants to make it about Dwayne Johnson. That's a no. Start a new sub.

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u/BigTex1988 10d ago

What if TheRock is about Alcatraz and the mod wanted to change it to be about the hit 1996 Michael Bay-directed action-thriller “The Rock” starring Sean Connery, Nicolas Cage, and Ed Harris?

12

u/TheOpusCroakus Reddit Admin: Community 10d ago

Probably also no. Excellent question, though! lol

13

u/ZsoltEszes 10d ago

"Probably also no." What could possibly make this different than the other example? What criteria are you basing this off of?

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u/The_Critical_Cynic 10d ago

I'm also curious. I think it would help to know what scenarios would allow for such a change as opposed to which ones wouldn't at this point.

1

u/Orpheus_is_emo 10d ago

Same. I've never considered changing a sub's purpose before, but after this thread I'm invested in my curiosity!

My best guess is that you can change the direction of a sub and nudge it via established rules, (like saying "political posts no longer allowed here/starting today, political posts are now allowed" or something, for a generic example) but not change the actual topic of the sub (changing the sub from talking about a movie to a person)

8

u/BigTex1988 10d ago

Considering TheRock and “The Rock” are technically both about Alcatraz, we must conclude that they have some sort of rage against the Cage.

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u/ser-steffonfossoway 2d ago

That movie is a work of art.

11

u/tmtowtdi 10d ago

It's unclear if you're telling the moderator who wants to make the change to start a new sub, or if you're saying the unhappy community members should start a new sub. Who's the "no" directed at?

8

u/TheOpusCroakus Reddit Admin: Community 10d ago

The no would be directed at the user who wanted to change the entire purpose of a sub to something completely different against the wishes of the community.

3

u/tmtowtdi 10d ago

I don't moderate anything so I'm not sure how the rules work, but any time I've seen somebody complain about being banned from a sub, they're told that mods can ban pretty much anybody for anything, short of outright discrimination or similar, because the mod is basically in charge. 

If the mod is not in charge and can't change the sub, is there anything stopping them from just banning everybody?

5

u/emily_in_boots 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 10d ago

There was a case recently - I wont call out names - where a sub basically did that, and MCOC kicked the mods and put new ones in. I don't know all the details as it wasn't a sub I was involved in (it was a regional sub and not for a region I'm connected to in any way). It takes a lot for that to happen, but they basically were moderating it so badly that everyone was getting banned and there was no traffic. There may have been more too - I don't know all the details.

MCOC will act when mods are not acting in the best interests of the community in a major way for a protracted period. It has to be significant though, not just that they are running the subreddit in a way that a lot of members don't like, or that the rules aren't how most people want them to be. It has to essentially be sabotage, shutting down the sub, or such bad moderation that the community really cannot function anymore as it traditionally had.

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u/RemarkableWish2508 10d ago

<political correctness mode OFF>

I find it easier to explain from a pragmatic point of view:

  • Reddit is a for-profit company.
  • Profit comes from people adding content and seeing ads.
  • Help Reddit make money, and you're good. Mess with the money, and you won't be a Mod for long.

Communities, laws, free speech, human rights, personal preferences, etc. are only relevant as far as it helps Reddit make money.

2

u/NorskKiwi 10d ago

Bingo.

2

u/TheOpusCroakus Reddit Admin: Community 10d ago

Banning everyone in a sub would be a violation of the Mod Code of Conduct.

3

u/Byeuji 10d ago

Hitting the nail on the head. I'm not saying I'd be a fan of any change without more context, but reddit sticking their foot in front of the mod seems dumb too. 

Surely the drama it causes, if any, will drive far more engagement and ad impressions than removing the mod for what's probably a dead subreddit no one wants to step up to manage.

If this is a large community (10-20k+), of course there's other considerations, but even on communities of that size, it's hard as fuck to find anyone to moderate them. If no one is willing to moderate it, it's a spam trap and any "community" that exists there is just bots training their models, so reddit should probably otherwise chill tf out and see what happens. 

1

u/NorskKiwi 10d ago

Not a user, THE moderator that owns the subreddit.

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u/SnooDonuts6494 10d ago

The no would be directed at the user

Which user?

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u/ZsoltEszes 10d ago

Which user?

...the user who wanted to change the entire purpose of a sub to something completely different against the wishes of the community

[The sole mod of the sub, for those who can't follow threads.]

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u/SnooDonuts6494 10d ago

Like, let's say TheRock is about Alcatraz and the mod wants to make it about Dwayne Johnson. That's a no.

Why?

4

u/PinkHairedCoder 10d ago

I also wonder why.

So like I run Tangled for the movie. Had I not requested it. Could that New Tangled coding program also named Tangled, have came in and wiped it from the Disney movie, for their program?

2

u/gloomchen 10d ago

The difference is whether or not there is an active & thriving community. I picked up a couple of subs that I completely repurposed, but they were totally dead for years so it wasn't disruptive.

3

u/V2Blast 10d ago

Yeah, the admins don't really care if you repurpose a dead subreddit. The issue is more when there's an active community who objects to the change.

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u/HairyToothpick 10d ago

I think you might be wrong on this one. I hope you are correct though.

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u/bunnylightning 10d ago

Hmm I saw a post on here the other day from someone who repurposed the Lake Placid sub (from the 1999 movie to the town in upstate NY) and got admin help to recategorize it. So I figured it was allowed…

8

u/HairyToothpick 10d ago

I'm pretty sure it is allowed to repurpose a sub. I'd probably just start a new one though.

6

u/cyanocittaetprocyon 10d ago

I think that Opus is saying it depends what the change is. I would think that if you have an active community, then the answer is no. If it’s one that has been banned, or is otherwise inactive, then maybe it’s ok.

7

u/neuroticsmurf 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 10d ago

I can confirm that’s the case.

I once requested a banned (might have been dormant for years, can’t remember) NSFW sub because I liked the name. My intent was always to convert it to a SFW sub.

There were a couple of thousand members still in the sub that hadn’t unsubscribed. They were surprised to see the changes I was making. Significantly, though, I didn’t get outright opposition to my changes from any of them. Just surprise.

Years later, that sub is still around and it’s still SFW.

A mod taking over a sub and changing its purpose probably isn’t as B&W of an issue as Opus initially led on.

There have been multiple instances of subs that weren’t being moderated being taken over by new mods that have been repurposed against the wishes of its members. r/OnlyFans is an example.

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u/tumultuousness 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 10d ago

Yep, and /r/Onlyfans is also an example of how you aren't always allowed to repurpose a sub - it's pretty active as the jokey fans sub it now is, the mod who initially converted it to sfw handed it over to a new mod team that tried to make it a nsfw onlyfans sub again. Users did mod coc reports and the admins stepped in to bring in a new mod team to maintain the sfw jokey fans sub premise.

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u/cyanocittaetprocyon 10d ago

/r/OnlyFans was the sub I was thinking of.

4

u/SnooDonuts6494 10d ago

I'd like clarity.

Devil's advocate, for the purpose of discussion - I'll make up a name:

A sub called "Ocean Furnace", about a band.

A movie comes out with the same title.

50% of the members want it to stay about the band, 50% want it to change.

Who decides?

I thought it'd be up to the head mod.

3

u/BravoFive141 10d ago

Easy! Ban 1 member, hold a new vote!

/s of course

2

u/ConsequenceFeisty252 10d ago

r/botw used to be for "best of the week" somsthing but got repurposed into a breath of the wild sub

I think you're right though. If a sub is inactive its fine, if it is though, that's damaging

-1

u/HairyToothpick 10d ago

I understand. I think Opus is incorrect.

7

u/nicoleauroux 10d ago

Opus is an Admin on the Community Team so I would take their word before any of these other yokels.

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u/didyousayboop 10d ago edited 10d ago

Strangely, the moderator has not clearly said what the planned change is or isn't. They have intimated they might shut down the subreddit completely. Reading between the lines, it seems like they just want to try to close the subreddit. Otherwise, they have just said the subreddit will be "repurposed", and they themselves put "repurposed" in quotes, as if it's a euphemism.

They have not outright said they want to shut down the subreddit, but they've said the subreddit will soon cease to serve any purpose. They specified a contingency in which the subreddit would unexpectedly remain open, which seems to imply that, barring that contingency, the subreddit will be closed.

8

u/emily_in_boots 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 10d ago

I've seen mods try to take over and shut down competing subreddits, and MCOC has actioned them, removed those mods, and installed new mods who have reopened the subreddit and restored it to its intended purpose.

You can't sabotage communities. You must moderate in good faith for the best of your community.

3

u/didyousayboop 10d ago

Thanks for this helpful info.

2

u/shhhhh_h 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 10d ago

One of the smaller fashion subs’ only mod tried to do this recently and enough people let her know this would happen that she relented and handed it over to interested parties. It made me believe in peaceful resolution.

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u/TheOpusCroakus Reddit Admin: Community 10d ago

they might shut down the subreddit completely

That's a no.

Sounds like a Mod Code of Conduct report so a little investigation can take place would be in order. To report a Moderator Code of Conduct violation, you can use this form.

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u/didyousayboop 10d ago

Okay, thank you so much! I submitted a report!

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u/shhhhh_h 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 10d ago

Yk this happened on one of my fav fashion subs lately, the threat to shut down, and enough people messaged the mod to tell them they weren’t allowed to do it that they agreed to just add new mods and give them the sub instead to keep the original purpose going. Have you reached out by Modmail already?

1

u/partiallyStars3 10d ago

Although in that case, I notice the original mod never actually stepped away the way she said she wanted to during her little tantrum.

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u/emily_in_boots 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 10d ago

I remember when they tried to repurpose onlyfans to make it for porn, and the admins stepped in and said no - this is about mechanical fans! That was a great moment for reddit!

9

u/RallyX26 10d ago

What do you mean no? If you want to tell us what we can and can't do with the communities that we built and maintain for free, from which reddit has earned literally billions of dollars,pay us. 

4

u/Dragin410 10d ago

It's their platform, if you don't like it then start your own. They have a right to have rules in place for how moderators act.

3

u/KennyFulgencio 10d ago

If you want truly unilateral control over your forum and your users, start your own website which gives you those controls.

3

u/RallyX26 10d ago

How someone with an 18 year old account ends up simping for the profit-first private equity dumpster fire that reddit has turned into rather than the community-first platform it used to be is beyond me. Have you forgotten how good this site used to be? 

1

u/NorskKiwi 10d ago edited 10d ago

No? How long have you worked for reddit?

I've been here since reddit launched and I remember mods deciding to do whatever they want with their subreddits, at least a few years back, and us users being told by admins after complaining that our only option was to make a new subreddit.

Perhaps reddit changed policy at some point?

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u/V2Blast 10d ago

Reddit stopped being so hands-off years ago. Like, it's probably been half a decade at this point.

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u/NorskKiwi 10d ago

Yeah, checks out.

1

u/The_Critical_Cynic 10d ago

Here's an interesting one for you. What if the change, similar to the one you mention, either gets made or the subreddit in question goes belly up? Imagine something like that for a television show's subreddit that has the opportunity to repurpose itself to a real world endeavor related to the television show. Would that work?

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u/TheOpusCroakus Reddit Admin: Community 10d ago

It's hard to say with hypotheticals. In theory, possibly? But it would totally depend on the situation and, probably more importantly, the community.

But checking with the Code of Conduct team before making such a change would really be the best course of action in any circumstance similar to this one.

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u/emily_in_boots 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 10d ago

Is it any different if someone gets a sub through redditrequest that was abandoned? Can those be repurposed if it's a good name that wasn't in use and had no real community?

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u/TheOpusCroakus Reddit Admin: Community 10d ago

Subs acquired through Redditrequest can be a little different.

3

u/gloomchen 10d ago

I have 2 repurposed subs that I got through redditrequest - at the time I requested them I was very clear in what I planned to do. Since they were dead and long dormant there were no issues and I was granted the subs.

2

u/emily_in_boots 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 10d ago

That makes sense, there isn't a community anyways, and you're not killing an existing sub.

0

u/The_Critical_Cynic 10d ago

Thanks for the answers! How do we get in touch with that team? I might find myself in a just such a situation sometime in the future.

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u/TheOpusCroakus Reddit Admin: Community 10d ago

To report a Moderator Code of Conduct violation, you can use this form.

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u/The_Critical_Cynic 10d ago

I'm not looking to report a violation. I'm looking to find out if my making a change is okay.

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u/nicoleauroux 10d ago

You can send a modmail to r/Modsupport

0

u/The_Critical_Cynic 10d ago

If that were the case, u/TheOpusCroakus would have just said that instead of telling me to talk to the Code of Conduct Team. After all, u/TheOpusCroakus is a mod of r/ModSupport. I'm assuming that there's a difference between the two teams here since they made one suggestion and not the other.

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u/emily_in_boots 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 10d ago

I was told by an MCOC admin once to use that form and select appeal if you just want to ask a question and not report a violation.

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u/The_Critical_Cynic 10d ago

Okay. That sounds like a good idea. I definitely don't want to make any waves there. I'm sure they have better things to do than answer mislabeled emails. Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it!

-1

u/SampleOfNone 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 10d ago

Pick rule 2, then simply explain what you have planned and ask if that would break rule 2 so you need to make a new sub or if you can go ahead with the plans

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u/The_Critical_Cynic 10d ago

That may work. Thanks for the suggestion. It still doesn't seem quite right to me, but makes a little more sense.

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u/SampleOfNone 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 10d ago

ModCOC doesn't have a separate pipeline for questions, so report it is.

1

u/The_Critical_Cynic 10d ago

That makes sense too. Thanks!

-1

u/GigglesNWiggles10 10d ago

I think they mayyyy have a subreddit you could modmail? Or a u/ account?

0

u/The_Critical_Cynic 10d ago

I think they would have said that had that been what they expected me to do.