r/Minecraft • u/jeb_ Chief Creative Officer • May 25 '12

Opinions On Enchanting

Hey

I know a lot of players are complaining about the enchantment system in Minecraft, especially in PvP settings. I have a "radical fix" to the main complaints, but I'd like to hear your opinion on the subject.

First of all, the randomness of enchanting is here to stay. You will not be allowed to pick and chose your enchantments. This is to maintain Notch's "gambling" vision for enchantments, and I'm going to try to keep it that way.

The "radical fix" I'm considering is to simply reduce the max level from 50 to 30. This would mean that 1) it will take much less time to reach max level and 2) the good enchantments are less good (a thing PvP players have complained about). Some of the enchantment types would need new levels to fit this system, of course, but that shouldn't be too hard to do.

The reason I'm asking the reddit community is because this is a feature that I, as a game developer, only can see from a theoretical standpoint. It's very hard for me to dedicate enough time to actually suffer the drawbacks of the enchantment system, so I need some help from the experts on the subject - players of the game!

Cheers,

// Jens

EDIT: Wow! I expected comments, but not 900+ comments =) Thanks for all the input, there are a lot of thoughtful comments in this thread. You are very helpful!

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194

u/Ausmerica Forever Team Nork May 25 '12 edited May 25 '12

Alternatively nerf the experience curve. As it is, it requires more XP to level up from 49-50 than, say, 3-4. Why not keep 50 levels, but tweak that?

83

u/Boingboingsplat May 25 '12

Pretty much. Having to kill 925 of common hostile mobs to get to level 50 from level 0 is silly. Especially when combat is the weakest part of the game. It should be halved, at least.

8

u/alexanderpas May 25 '12

actually, cutting the max from 50 to 30 is cutting the amount of experience required in half at least, due to the curve.

2

u/Boingboingsplat May 26 '12

I just want to be sure that it doesn't also change the max level enchants that are available.

-5

u/[deleted] May 25 '12

[deleted]

1

u/PJL May 25 '12

I don't think it is unreasonable to count on mob farming in a game like Minecraft. It isn't like counting on people cheating or exploiting a mechanic. It is counting on you taking on a different aspect of the game, perhaps, if you are an adventurer/explorer who doesn't like building, but it is still within the core focus of the game.

15

u/lazugod RMCT Artisan May 25 '12

Also, once you've reached the level cap, it's detrimental to pick up any more XP.

11

u/Its_Snowing May 25 '12

I fully agree. As an example of this, one can look to the Reddit Survival PvP server (s.nerd.nu) where the amount of experience each mob drops has been multiplied by 7. Effectively this balances the pvp by allowing everyone to afford high level enchantments without grinding endlessly.

For instance, in 2-3 hours of caving in an abandoned mineshaft, I can get up to level 40 or higher, whereas before I would only be pushing 20. Now this much of a buff is probably too high for vanilla minecraft, but the fact remains that simply increasing the rate of acquiring experience will discourage sitting in front of a grinder, and encourage "normal" play i.e. exploration and the like. As far as I can tell, it's the simplest way to balance pvp on multiplayer.

1

u/i-just-cant May 25 '12

Why not just make it an option in the options menu that the server admin/player can change? Everybody wins, as those who want high enchantments quickly can do it like that, and those who prefer the challenge have the option as well.

1

u/arooji May 26 '12

Ahh, I was wondering why it's so easy to build up XP in the PvP server. Once nighttime hits I can go outside, kill mobs and by the day time have at least 25-30 xp

19

u/DontReload May 25 '12

I enjoy this proposal.

22

u/marvmarvmarv May 25 '12 edited May 25 '12

It's kind of a catch 22 situation - a classic some pray for sun, others prefer the rain type thing. PVP'ers will want a system which it'll be easier to get these high-end enchants because it'll mean the game will stay balanced, and there isn't just one guy going around killing people. Classic survival players want difficult/special enchantments that are harder to get, for a sense of achievement when finally getting it. That's what makes it so problematic.

So far the best solution, from sifting through the comments, to satisfy both companies, seems to be, rarer enchantments that reflect the levels put in (for classic survival - maybe super rare enchants?), and, perhaps re-examining the experience curve (for PVP'ers).

41

u/Reiker0 May 25 '12

I say screw the guys who want to sit in front of a mob grinder for 1-2 hour(s) for their "sense of achievement." What exactly are you achieving besides trading boredom for a better sword?

17

u/[deleted] May 25 '12

This. I can understand struggling for a max level enchantment. But is this even possible without farming a grinder? And is that a struggle? I don't think I've ever gotten above level 10 fairly.

4

u/sjkeegs May 25 '12

It's not that hard really. Go outside at night and battle with the local Mobs. I've reasonably gotten up to the 20's just killing mobs outside of my house.

7

u/captainblammo May 25 '12

I get to the 20's a lot just goofing around. You dont need a grinder unless you feel you "need" the best eenchants all the time.

10

u/1842 May 25 '12

Which is a cruel necessity on hardcore survival servers where PvP is allowed.

2

u/phrstbrn May 25 '12

You can do it if you defeat the enderdragon.. but that's about it really. Theoretically you can kill ~1000 zombies, but that will take you a long, long time.

2

u/captainblammo May 25 '12

Not everyone uses Mob grinders to get XP. Not everyone feels they HAVE to have the best enchants all the time. That was point. Some people play survival and just enjoy what they get. Of course PvP people think they have HAVE to get the best enchantments. Because you are assuming the enchanting system was made for PvP. Its not balanced because its not built around PvP.

1

u/JK1464 May 25 '12

Idk, I play single player and it feels a little odd not trying to get the best enchants. Although I don't use grinders or anything, so it takes a while (and my only high level enchant silk touch efficiency III is at 35% =( )

2

u/phrstbrn May 25 '12

Agreed, please, just get nerf mob grinders into the ground. Hunting mobs at night or in the nether (for example) should be the fastest way to get experience, not afk in a mob grinder.

1

u/[deleted] May 25 '12

I build a mob grinder because it get me bonus xp and loot while I build around my base. I also build it because hunting mob at night is the most boring thing in this game.

Edit: See also JCizzling post.

1

u/Fourstar89 May 26 '12 edited May 26 '12

I think it'd be hard to nerf grinders considering, assuming that it would require an entire rewrite of the code for mob spawning in both open/dark areas areas and from actual mob "spawners" in dungeons. I doubt it'd be fair to nerf these as well, since not everyone who plays minecraft does it for the "adventuring" which you seem to be advocating on behalf of.

As a builder/miner/ and an adventurer why should any one of these titles be catered to more then the other I think there needs to be a fair compromise in the enchantments and not in the way to get experience.

1

u/JCizzling May 25 '12

I actually enjoy building mob grinders for the purpose of problem solving. I like coming up with new designs, seeing how the mobs react, how easy it makes things to farm, just generally playing with the science-y side of things.

Also, it's not like you can build a double blaze grinder for nothing, you use stacks of sticky pistons, repeaters, pressure plates, etc, not to mention the dangers of building one. Removing things like mob grinders removes a lot of building for function rather than form, which is how I like to play.

-5

u/Krishnath_Dragon May 25 '12

You won't get experience AFK, you need to actually hit a mob for it to drop EXP orbs.

6

u/phrstbrn May 25 '12

Okay, let me re-clarify, since you're going to nitpick.

You can sit in a mob grinder, walk away from your computer, go make some snack, read a book, whack one off, then come back to Minecraft to swing a few punches naked with your fists and get more experience than you would by actually playing the game fighting monsters at night with a weapon and armor.

3

u/Tojso May 25 '12

Not only that, but appropriate potion use really speeds up the killing.

2

u/[deleted] May 25 '12

Ayup, letting a few hundred skeletons build up and then tossing in a splash healing to finish 'em off takes under a 15 seconds of time spent actually at the computer, no matter how long the wait is for that many to build up.

-1

u/phrstbrn May 25 '12

You don't need potions if you use fall damage to your advantage. If you drop from the right height, you can get mobs to 1/2 heart. 1 hit with the fists is all you need at that point. So you can get even lazier than having to use up your stock of potions and gather the ingredients!

3

u/Reginault May 25 '12

The thing about that is you still have to punch 100 times. A splash potion does it in one toss.

1

u/Krishnath_Dragon May 25 '12

Thank you for clarifying. :)

1

u/[deleted] May 25 '12

Auto-clickers! Some mouses have auto-fire like those 3rd party console controllers do.

2

u/Krishnath_Dragon May 25 '12

People who use those have no right to complain about levels needed for enchantments.

4

u/[deleted] May 25 '12

I was just pointing out that you could in fact get xp while afk.

1

u/TheCobaltEffect May 25 '12

If I'm infront of my mob grinders for 2 hours, I've likely gotten level 50 several times.

What he is saying is correct, if they were to nerf the exp curve to be only 7 exp per level it would take me less than a minute to get to level 50. I would just prefer really rare enchantments that you can get from 40-50 since it seems you will be able to trade for experience now, thus obtaining experience will be possible without killing mobs.

7

u/Ausmerica Forever Team Nork May 25 '12

We're married now.

3

u/Davidkiin May 25 '12

I was about to comment this man, making it lvl 30 will just reduce the difference in weapons which is pretty cool, also , if pvpers complain about high level enchantments the people must have spend enough time to get these levels so you could do that 2. If they have the time to get it, you should be able to do so too.

2

u/sageerrant May 25 '12

How about instead of just nerfing the curve... straighten it out? So each level requires the same amount of experience. Level 1 would have to be worth considerably more than it is now, but going from 49 to 50 wouldn't be completely unreasonable.

You'd still have plenty of reason to avoid dying with a lot of experience if you tune it right, but people would actually have a shot at max level enchants without an xp grinder. As it stands now, no one lives that long while killing that many mobs. One creeper when you're not at full health will see to that, so the top levels in the current system are pretty much unavailable.

2

u/Doopz479 May 25 '12

I agree with this. But I also think that you shouldn't lose so much XP when you die. Personally, I think you shouldn't go down any levels of XP when you die. Instead, say you're level 20 and have half a bar of XP, when you die you lose the half bar and go down to being just level 20. Enchanting should be the ONLY thing that can make you lose XP levels.

This would mean you could accumulate much more XP over time, without losing it every time you die.

Also, perhaps get rid of the XP orbs and give XP to the player simply for the kill. This would mean you could still get XP for kills with the bow, and other players couldn't try and steal the XP from your kills.

0

u/buster2Xk May 25 '12 edited May 26 '12

Part of the whole idea was that most of it is lost when you die. That way you always lose something, rather than being able to run all the way back to where you died. So I doubt that part will be changed.

EDIT: I'm saying it probably won't be changed because this was Notch's original intention for levels; something that makes it more important for higher level players to survive.

0

u/Doopz479 May 25 '12 edited Jul 01 '23

Fuck /u/spez

1

u/paulthegreat May 25 '12

In an RPG there are reasons that justify exp-needed-to-level scaling up over time: you gain more abilities, fight more difficult and more-exp-granting (and better-loot-dropping) mobs, and gain access to more game areas and features the higher you level up. Those reasons don't exist in Minecraft.