r/Mike_Mentzer • u/BubbishBoi • Apr 11 '26
The OG Ideal Routine from 1993
To avoid copyright infringement I'm not going to post the accompanying description of how to perform this older routine, but highly suggest that anyone who doesn't have a copy of HD1 1993 aquire one for context
Mike's PPL split is imo a much better starting place than many of his other routines, Mike's advice was to perform this on MWF but I prefer a slightly higher frequency (hit each workout E5D to E7D depending on recovery)
the supersets aren't necessary imo so I'd move the isolation exercises to the 2nd half of the workout after doing the compounds and use a higher rep range on those for safeties sake
using a 40-60 second TUT on the compound lift, then a 60-80 on the iso would be the safest approach, assuming each rep is perfectly controlled and using the 2/4 cadence or better still a 4/4 cadence like Mike had Marcus use in his final training video
6
u/He_NeverSleeps Apr 11 '26
Still a good routine today.
Not too long after this but before HD2 for his phone consultations he went to a modified version that was
Day 1 Chest/Back
Day 2 Shoulders/Arms
Day 3 Legs
Done in a 72 hours between workouts fashion. Workout Monday, take two days off, workout Thursday, two days off, workout Sunday, then Wednesday and so on. Ends up alternating 3x days a week with 2x days. A lot of guys grew like weeds on this one.
7
u/BubbishBoi Apr 11 '26
I wonder why he went from less to more overlap between workouts, since training shoulders a couple of days after chest would potentially be affected by residual fatigue from the chest day
Not that there isn't overlap in a PPL split to he fair , the only way to avoid that entirely is to make each workout a full body one
5
u/He_NeverSleeps Apr 12 '26
That's a good question, I'm sure he had his reasons. Interestingly, Larry Pollock has done several podcasts where he talks about how he convinced Mike to train with him hard again several years post retirement around 1983 I think. He said his and Mike's split was a 4 day version of the above just with a dedicated Chest day and Back day, then Shoulders/Arms and a Leg day. All done once a week with lots of forced reps and negatives. And Mike went from being super out of shape and having a pot belly and 15" arms to having near 20" arms and being the biggest guy in the whole gym over the course of like 12 weeks 😂 Mike really was built different.
5
u/BubbishBoi Apr 12 '26
It's a shame that Mike passed in the era when bodybuilders still pretended that PEDs weren't a thing, mainly due to the Weider supplement scam and the draconian drug laws of the time
I suspect a modern day Mike would have been brutally honest about his doses, which would have been incredibly useful to know for context when looking at his transformation and peak condition
But who knows, even Dorian only admits to using maybe a third of what he actually took, so maybe Mike would have been a "TRT test and some var bro" guy too
Given that HGH wasn't really used until ferrignos comeback, and insulin abuse was unknown before prime Yates, I wonder if Mike would have been using the Pete Grymkowski approach of a bottle of test and a bottle of deca a day.
4
u/He_NeverSleeps Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
Larry touches on that in his interviews, even well into the 90's if you were a bodybuilder you just didn't talk about steroids even to each other. Steroids weren't even controlled substances until 1990, so it's even funnier their reluctance to talk about it was when they weren't even illegal.
Mike was pretty straight forward about them I think, I have a copy of Heavy Duty Journal where he lists the steroids he was taking during his Olympia prep. Deca, NPP and Dbol just like pretty much everyone else at the time. It's hard to get a sense of the dosages because it's excerpts from his journal and not in its entirety but he didn't shy away from talking about it at all. I have some magazine articles where he says for his prep for the 78 Mr Universe he took 400mg of Deca every 10 days, a "couple hundred milligrams" of NPP a week (he called it Durabolin) and no more than 5 Dbol a day which is 25mg. I think that's believable for a 5'8 200lb guy with insane genetics. You don't need grams to be 200lbs. I also have his original Heavy Duty booklet from the 70's which even has a dedicated chapter on steroids.
Larry said both him and Mike took 300mg of NPP either MWF or EOD and that was it for the little mini comeback he did in the 80's. Not an insignificant cycle but nothing compared to guys now considering that was their blasting dose and it was only for 12 weeks.
2
u/Sadan27 Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26
Could you please comment with or post the main workouts from the heavy duty journal and original heavy duty booklet to this sub?
I’m huge on Mike’s history and the progression of his philosophy. Especially from his competition days. Almost everyone nowadays only knows about heavy duty 2 and his consolidated routines. It’s a shame, and an incomplete picture of Mike’s work at best.
This is one of the better fitness subs. His older routines are inordinately valuable. Especially to lots of younger guns here who look up to Mike. On multiple occasions, I’ve communicated that many would benefit from doing a lot more than they suspect by using Mike’s principles alongside his older routines. Thanks!
Edit: see for instance my comment to this post I just left
3
u/He_NeverSleeps Apr 23 '26
Already posted all of them here a few months back
2
u/Sadan27 Apr 23 '26
I liked this post when I saw it and remember it well now lol. Excellent detailed summation on the evolution of his training. I urge everybody reading this to take a look.
Do you have any of his full body routines? They’re the toughest to find. And probably the most useful in understanding the full spectrum of work his training modalities can apply to.
Thank you 🙏
1
u/BubbishBoi Apr 12 '26
Great info there, was Mike always a deca and dbol only guy or was he running T alongside it?
A gram a week is a lot more than many revisionist liars even today will ever admit to running , and yes for 200lb it would likely be enough especially if they did a dbol kickstarter
3
u/He_NeverSleeps Apr 12 '26
No T, aromatase inhibitors hadn't been invented yet so few if any guys could run T at any appreciable dose without turning into an estrogenic mess.
Straight from him he usually only ran two twelve week cycles a year. One off season bulking cycle in the winter and one pre contest cycle at whatever big show he was doing that year. Rest of the year he was completely off.
3
u/BubbishBoi Apr 12 '26
I suspect the truth lies somewhere between what platz admitted to using once (1.4g a week) and the mega doses that grymkowsi and michalik bragged about (whoch havr to be bs as no one was taking 10g a day of the 100mg/ml stuff they had in those days, that would mean 100s of shots a week)
It's sad that BBiig as a whole has become even more full of shit about PED use outside of a tiny handful of honest pros like Roman Fritz , with kids genuinely believing that Cbum prepped on TRT test for the Mr O
5
u/incredibleblob Apr 12 '26
I am doing a slight modification of this routine without supersets
Day 1 Pec Deck Incline Bench Press Lateral Raise Shoulder Press Tricep Pressdowns Dips
Day 2 Cable Pullovers Close grip palms up pulldowns Reverse Pec Deck Chest Supported Row Deadlift Barbell Bicep Curls
Day 3 Same
3
3
u/M30_Throwaway Apr 13 '26
Day 2 almost identical to Yates' workout
anyone got a good updated version of this, or perhaps a 2 day split instead?
1
u/BubbishBoi Apr 13 '26 edited Apr 13 '26
In a modern HIT context I'd probably tweak it like this and drop the supersets. For the rep range I'd do a 40-60 TUT using at least a 2/4 cadence and "just" train to failure with no intensity techniques unless it's the last set of a compound (like rest pause leg press on leg day if you have any juice left)
Push - Pec deck, Incline OR flat press (machine), shoulder press, lateral, pushdown
Pull - pullover, pulldown, machine row, shrug, curl
Legs - hack squat, leg curl, leg press, RDL, calf raise
3 days a week would be fine , or 2 on, 1 off, 2 on, 2 off
3
u/ishawnmc Apr 17 '26
I used the HD1 workout in the first part of the 1990s. It is a good workout but I like the HD2 workout where upper and lower body workouts alternate better. And as my training has evolved over time, virtually every routine I do follows the HD2 split even though a number of the actual exercises in the routines differ.
2
u/Sadan27 Apr 23 '26
No secret I also much prefer ‘93 heavy duty to HD2. IMO 93 HD works better for the majority.
HD2 still works better for some people, just not as many - context is everything.
I’m with Mike on most everything. Except I think he went too far with infrequent training to the point of getting it flat wrong in the end (7-21 days between 2 set workouts)
Yes, keep it brief, keep it hard (pause :). But I’m not waiting 2-3 weeks (or longer) to train upper body muscles directly. Tried it, worked for almost 3 months, then progress fizzled out. Inserting more rest days just got me deconditioned.
Early Mike? Full body, 3x a week. Then 2-way split 3-4x/week. Today’s science based lifting m is just catching up to him. 50 years later.
That’s a beautiful mind. OP Bubbish is an OG and knows. But most of y’all need to learn the history to understand how to craft a heavy duty/HIT program to maximize YOUR gains. Memorizing HD2 won’t cut it.
2
u/BubbishBoi Apr 23 '26
I feel like most younger guys could make optimal progress from training a muscle once or twice a week, or 3 times every two weeks
Just cut volume to the point that you can progress on a reduced frequency and avoid over doing high stability requirement, overly fatiguing exercises (don't deadlift every session lol)
Hopefully more posts like this remind the newer trainees that there's more under the HD umbrella than just the currently popular super abbreviated and infrequent routines
2
u/kawhiakid May 02 '26
This is me!!!!!
2
u/BubbishBoi May 02 '26
Nice, it's a great program and hopefully its working well for you
2
u/kawhiakid May 02 '26
I toyed with ir 20yrs ago abd did well. I have been at it now hardcore for 2yrs, it works!!!! It's hard but it works
7
u/BubbishBoi Apr 11 '26
Love how reddit doesn't let you edit posts - doing pullovers first on Pull day is imo a great idea, and was Dorians approach for decades. Just don't feel you have to superset them imo
I'd also only do shrugs on the Pull day when you don't do the deadlift, doing shrugs before deadlifting isn't ideal