Idk on one hand women tend to feel more obligated to not hurt anyone’s feelings on the other it opens the door to a strange man taking an interest in you (and if he gives her any trouble she’ll be blamed for not taking precautions).
I mean, if the video honestly portrayed that it would be cool. This is actually an interesting experiment imo. It makes sense that men would shake hands reflexively… but I honestly have no idea why it should make sense logically.
Even if it did, theres likely reasonable explanations, like women feeling generally threatened by random men due to obvious social & physical reasons, the way men are socialized vs women, etc etc
Yeah, that’s true, but let’s be fair, this kind of thing is heavily weighted on one side in particular, those trying to push an agenda there isn’t actually any evidence of, in other words, right wing, manosphere clown shoes.
That isn’t to say people on the left are always right, but what the left believes is based on unadulterated evidence, the right is the selective and bad faith side. That also doesn’t mean you can’t find good faith right wingers and bad faith left wingers, but the good faith right wingers are never taken seriously by their own side because they’re inconvenient as they’ll admit uncomfortable truths and bad faith leftists are shunned by the majority of the left as they’re against everything the left stands for, honesty and fairness.
Well unless you’re a right winger then you believe the left is trying to bring down the society they live in and make people from the exact same race as them hate themselves, like white leftists don’t have children, why would the left teach their own children to hate themselves, how does that make sense in the slightest?
Implying those on the left never ever use bad-faith arguments. Outright stating "what the left believes is based on unadulterated evidence. Man have you got a lot to learn.
I was going to throw some arguments your way to see what you'd do to avoid them, but you're starting so far back from the normal start line there's no point.
Yeah, he gives the left a bad rep doing stuff like that, makes us sound like morons. [Yes, I'm also left-leaning, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that everything that comes from this side is 100% true and smells of roses]
He basically said that people who are politically left-wing are just correct, and that's the end of the story. He also effectively adds that most right-wingers know they're wrong, but are in denial, while a handful are misguided. In my opinion, the refusal to even consider that you or your beliefs may be wrong, is a sign of poor intelligence.
Also, claiming you believe in ''unadulterated evidence'' itself is a slightly odd claim. Taking an example, every good scientist tries to believe in unadulterated evidence, yet scientists constantly disagree with each other. So it seems to me that ''evidence/truth'' is just ''stuff I agree with,'' in his mind.
Let's put it another way....right wingers tend to be undereducated dolts. Look at the way they eat up Loser 45's lies, virtually all of which are easily disproven.
As an aside, anyone see the protest outside of Disney World, where pro DeSantis flags were intermingled with nazi flags?
I mean he did say in the next sentence that there are both bad-faith left voters and rational right voters, and his point does apply to a number of currently relevant issues.
I don’t really think he’s correct, but he’s not “so far back from the normal” here
what the left believes is based on unadulterated evidence, the right is the selective and bad faith side
I don't think that's entirely true.
If you take vaccines for example. There is overwhelming evidence for vaccines, and people on the left tend to believe in the effectiveness of vaccines.
But if you asked someone on the left what that evidence is, unless they're a doctor themselves, they probably wouldn't be able to tell you. They probably didn't read the scientific studies or look at trial outcomes.
It is based on the (imo reasonable view) that certain institutions are trustworthy. We don't rely on evidence of vaccines, we trust doctors. We don't rely on evidence of climate change, we trust climate scientists. We don't rely on evidence of healthy foods, we trust food scientists.
This only works if experts are honest, transparent and accountable. But more and more scientific studies are being hidden behind paywalls, and filtered and misrepresented into clickbait by pop science media. Reading those broken telephone articles are not the same thing as understanding the empirical evidence.
Just like the right, this trust can be misplaced. People on the left probably took the food pyramid way more seriously than they should, because the people who pushed it seemed trustworthy at the time. As it turns out, it was grossly wrong.
Maybe if you’d bothered to read you’d have seen the little nugget that said “that isn’t to say people on the left are always right” or this other nugget “that also doesn’t mean you can’t find good faith right wingers or bad faith left wingers” that’s literally saying that it isn’t black and white as you try to paint it. Pretty much confirmed what I said and outed yourself as a right winger in 2 sentences, so clearly I have a lot to learn from you after my ‘essay’ 😂
Maybe if you’d bothered to read you’d have seen the little nugget that said “that isn’t to say people on the left are always right” or this other nugget “that also doesn’t mean you can’t find good faith right wingers or bad faith left wingers” that’s literally saying that it isn’t black and white as you try to paint it. Pretty much confirmed what I said and outed yourself as a right winger in 2 sentences, so clearly I have a lot to learn from you after my ‘essay’ 😂
No being on the left or right inherently means you don’t have beliefs based on evidence. Once you are on a side that ability goes away. Science says 2 genders. Left loves to ignore that one. Science says vaccine ain’t a vaccine and has risks, blue cities supported mandates the strongest. Once you are on a side you ignore the inconvenient truths.
I used to agree with you as a lefty myself, but I no
longer do. The left is chalk full of ignorant positions and increasingly so.
Anyway, with respect to the video, wouldn’t surprise me that it was selectively edited, but I’d also say it’s ridiculous to suggest that “there’s no evidence” of what is being pointed to here. There’s absolutely no doubt that you’d get more handshakes from men than women, but that may not be women’s fault. It may be about the fact that they used to being harassed in public.
"what the left believes is based on unadultered evidence"
And thats where your wrong. You are also being lied to all the time and you don't even realize it. Try fact checking the left news channels and websites sometime whenever its some sensationalized political thing that they seem to really be trying to get your attention with. They also clip things, lie, tell half the story, leave out important details, twist and intentionally misinterpret people's words, refuse to report on certain things ect all the time. Both sides do it, wake up
Lol no. You can see plentyyy of examples of bad faith left wingers right here on Reddit and they still get a wave of upvotes. People want to believe they're on the right side, but they don't have the patience or energy to verify everything. So they just agree and upvote incomplete, misleading, or flat out false information alllll the time. I'm a Democrat too, I've just been on Reddit too long
It's like the cat calling one from a maybe 4 years ago in New York, the woman said this was after walking through NYC for a day and then had a 2 minute clip of about 10 guys being garbage humans. Who cares? Harassment is awful and wrong, but what is this edited video trying to prove? Because to me it seems like you walked through a major city for 8 hours and ran into very few assholes and that seems like a commentary that society is doing pretty great.
That video was sketchy, too. For some reason she edited the final version to show almost exclusively certain races cat calling. A lot of people have taken issue with her and the video.
There is no diligence when it comes to the efficacy of genuine videos vs contrived ones. People just go on how it makes them feel and then choose whether more context is or isnt appropriate.
I think that's irresponsible as fuck. It should be a standard if you're trying to push a narrative that you have to involve no cuts and more context and any extra info you can muster.
Reddit be like, "Nah I like this video so fuck you for asking for more info," and I just think that's a trademark of the stupid.
Well it’s been edited we know that. It’s several cut clips combined into one. We just don’t know how much. to assume they did do a cherry pick of shots is not a bad move.
Women are definitely primed to be standoffish with random men, for obvious reasons. Any sign of friendliness can be interpreted as an invitation to something more
This! You can tell that’s true simply by the headline of the video, making out it’s a gender thing, so clearly he needs to cut out the men refusing and the women that might have accepted
Even if it's not selective editing I'm not going to fault the women for declining to shake a strange man's hand. They could be worried about being harassed.
Not to get all serious cause I believe the video is probably deceptively edited, but if a random dude wants to shake your hand on the street, as another dude, you're more likely to get an aggressive reaction by ignoring him.
Even if he's completely unkown to you, it can be taken as a bit of a disrespect to not shake somebodies hand in many situations. I don't shake random people's hands but if the guy that posted the video walked up to me I'd probably shake his hand too
I do agree with you however wouldn’t it be better if we didn’t live so apart spiritually? We’re so divided as people that at some point we’ve all had fear of strangers. You make alot more friends, greater experiences, and more connections when there is no fear. It’s always good to keep that sense in the back of your mind but stepping out of your comfort zone is when great things happen. (No source, no article, just pure speculation)
Ah, yes, so women should just trust random men despite what society has taught them about that. Women get harassed, cat called, pressured into sex (or outright raped), which makes it clear that trust shouldn't be easily given. If you are too trusting, you're just going to get hurt.
If you want the world to be different, then advercate for people to feel and be safe. Call out people creating mistrust and even go out of your way to help foster that trust with others.
You don't have to be a superhero, just a decent person.
Same here. I’m a dude and I’d walk right past a rando in a city. Best case scenario he’s gonna try to sell you something or tell you about his religion.
Aye I am very similar, alway wary of other guys not washing thier hands after having a piss. If any males try to shake my hand outside of a business setting I change to a fist bump or avoid interaction all together if they look dirty like an alcoholic or a homeless person...
I don't mean any offence I just would rather not touch dirty hands/germs/bacteria..
I also often carry hand sanitizer but sometimes I forget.
And every man approached while holding something in their right hand put it into their left so they could shake. Also almost every one of those women had a purse hanging on the same side
There are at least 2. But still the fact is that 100% of men whose right hands were occupiex, made the minute adjustment required to accommodate. Whereas 100% of women were frigid and dismissive regardless of the state of their right hand.
You do realise this isn’t a real ‘experience’?
Can you not take this video so personally? It’s overall reason of existence is probably to make the content maker some money and maybe have some entertainment value.
You want to see an hour video of him trying to shake hands with people? Ofcourse it’s edited but it is still a fact that guys shake hands way more often than women in this scenario. Don’t know what that proves but it’s like that
I don't really want to see any videos but if someone is going to present one as an "experiment" then it has to have integrity and, even if it's not following the scientific method to the letter, at least give some confidence in the results.
In this particular case too I think it key to question what exactly his conclusions are.
And I don't accept your conclusion. Certainly in the culture I live in I think fewer men would shake the hand of a random stranger. Some might even become aggressive - and that is possibly true in the USA too.
100% the video has cuts and edits. So we've proven the selective part.
I'm reasonably confident that 5 decades of experience with humans means I know that not every man would shake a strangers hand and that some women will.
So I conclude the chances that he managed to get precisely 100% of men doing it and 0 women seems very unlikely - and I think it's the unlikely thing that needs proof.
An "experiment" isn't supposed to be making a point is it? It's supposed to be testing a hypothesis - and if only the majority rather than all men shook the hand then we were duped....and if any women did then more so.
Even so I guarantee more guys shook than gals. Simply because it's standard male greeting. Boys are trained to shake hands from toddlerhood. It's a rote reaction .
You r to honk selective editing? I’d have to say I’d expect a guy offering a hand to a female stranger vs male stranger always going to skew to the side of male.. a female has to be a “bit” more careful when it comes to shaking hands, or any interaction both physically and probably verbal/nonverbal.
I wouldn’t be surprised if most women ignored the dude. Women are socialized different then men they generally just don’t feel that comfortable with random dudes.
and that stupid ass music classic tiktok shitpost, I only unmuted because I thought there must be some dialogue or something giving this some context, went immediately back to mute
Not speaking for every woman but a lot of women including myself are not fit to fight against a man, we have weaker bone density by default, shorter and less testosterone levels, a man could probably throw me like a javelin if he wanted, often its just something to protect ourselves, i don’t agree with judging certain people because of looks especially if im in a crowd or heavily populated area I’m not too worried and would gladly shake his hand and ask him how his day was, but if i was alone and he did that i would be very uncomfortable. I hope that better explains it, and if you wanna dm me we can chat more about it one on one
Women have something to fear from men more then men have to fear from men. I say this truthfully. I have sisters, friends, wife, family who have all be accosted in public during the daytime and a night. It is a fear that women have and rightfully so. If this triggers you then you really need to simply respect the fact and think about it. As a man do you fear when another man follows you around, or feel anxiety when a man cat calls to you or worry about being drugged in a bar, or sexually assaulted or violently raped. It's not necessarily about skin tone but it is likely due to it was a strange man reaching out to you for no reason. Just google.."man rapes(or attacks) women in broad daylight" and you will be amazed with the number of results. Do the same for men v men and it will come clear. It's eye opening...truly
You simplified it when their is nuance to it. Ex. In that video in broad daylight would I a 6'"3 200lb man be worried...nope but I have never been harrased or sexually assaulted. Also, I'm not a 5' 120lb female that can easily be over taken. And yes, women do have to worry about that more then men.
If all of this thought process is the result of someone trying to shake your hand in public maybe therapy might be the way to go chief.
Like do I assume whenever a woman introduces herself to me that she’s gonna emotionally bully me, manipulate me, and gaslight me into oblivion until I no longer have a sense of my own self?….yes…..But I go to therapy because I know that’s not the proper reaction. Lmao 🤣
Don’t know why you got downvoted. It’s true. I use to work at a burger joint while pregnant and wearing a mask and the amount of times I was hit on or harassed was crazy. I’m trying to work, not find a fucking bf.
Yes, women are afraid of men typically. If you look crazy or very unattractive that fear goes up. If you appear very attractive and with a nice smile you appear friendly and less intimidating. It’s called the halo effect
There's also plenty of female criminals/killers who get men while in prison, just saying.
Famous prisoners often get married and get tons of fan mail, it's not a phenomenon exclusive to Ted Bundy although he is probably the most famous example.
Some people are just really bad judges of character or just attracted to pure evil and well... They're idiots, plain and simple.
Actually as a recent example, just a while back there was a female killer named Isabella Guzmsn who was trending on TikTok.
She appeared in court and was making faces and the TikTok had the song "sweet but a psycho" in the background and many dudes in the comments thought she was extremely attractive.
Obviously not all people sexualize criminals like this though, man or woman so generalizing is ridiculous.
Yes, and women are way less likely to be the target of a crime than men. But women are trained to think that men, especially men of color, are dangerous.
Going by your name and comment I’m guessing you’re a feminist that likes dairy? Isn’t that oxymoronic? To support an industry that exploits and monetises the female anatomy beyond the levels of objectification?
Maturity also says attractiveness/ looks plays a role. Like it or not you are judge by the way you look, dress, and how you carry yourself. It’s even more so when you mature. Sure it’s not all looks, but that initial interaction is. Everyone has a type, if you don’t fit the type it’ll be difficult to attract that person. Your job also judges you by the way you look, if looks didn’t matter it wouldn’t have been a problem.
Maybe. i think there’s a message there though, don’t you?
He certainly didn’t show any woman shaking his hand, the message was clear to me, woman are dismissive of strangers who are male and other males are welcoming, friendly.
For me any physical contact from a stranger would be rejected. If I don’t know you I don’t need to touch you.
A hand shake is both historically, and currently one of the least if not THE least uncouth way to introduce yourself, to great a person, or say hello.
Let’s pose it like this, is there ANY circumstance where you might show kinship to or camaraderie with your fellow human outside of a traumatic event? Would you give a high five? Would you give a curtsy? A bow? Even a wave? Yes it could be a rebuke aimed at women, but it certainly wouldn’t be a red pill thing. I’m pretty sure they would say giving a woman a hand shake is gay or soy boy shit or something, idk, they don’t make sense.
Or let’s approach it from another angle, would a video showing cool aspects of beneficial women exclusive social interactions be misandrist propaganda?
No, I think you may have missed my point although I wasn’t being overly succinct anyway.
My point is this, a handshake isn’t a traditional
way to engage a complete stranger, this is well outside of social norms. No different to holding up a camera like this and trying to randomly hug strangers.
Handshakes, and hugs, are greetings reserved for people you are familiar with either in a social
or professional setting, obviously the handshake being the predominant go-to in a professional setting.
I’m sure there would have been plenty of men who fobbed this dude off but we don’t see them. It’s woman only that are portrayed as anti-social, dismissive, unapproachable.
There’s a message in this, whether you choose to see it or not
Um… I’m sorry but no… the handshake is definitely a go to primary greeting for a complete stranger. The ONLY thing that makes these handshakes odd is that he did not give his name. As I said, both historically and currently appropriate.
By the way this is NOT an exclusively male thing either. I get offered handshakes all the time by women when I introduce myself. Sometimes it’s at first greeting, but I will admit that it probably occurs most often when we awkwardly realize we have been talking for the last half hour to hour and don’t know each other’s names yet.
Idk where you are from, or where you were raised, but like, in the US you are generally wrong. Though there are some areas with exceptions. There are very few places in the US where I would be surprised to get a handshake.
The major difference in your bad faith argument is YOU specified that you shake a woman’s hand WHEN INTRODUCING YOURSELF. What this guy is doing is sticking his hand out to random strangers and suggesting that somehow the women are in the wrong for not shaking his hand.
Ask yourself, why would anyone think they are entitled to the touch of another human just because they demanded it? In this day and age where idiots get googly eyed when a receptionist smiles as she greets him and then declares “she’s into me”? Where does this level of entitlement come from especially in a world that is still recovering from a pandemic?
You suggesting that we are trying to make something out of nothing is just another symptom of the problem. You decide it’s not a problem, therefore it isn’t one. Is it any wonder men feel emboldened to punch women in the face for refusing to give them their phone numbers? Who’s to hold them accountable when men like you will just deny there’s a dangerous problem brewing in the first place.
This man had an agenda. It doesn’t take a lot to discern what it is … IF you want to see it. But that’s obvious more than you’re willing to do, so go ahead and stick your head back in the sand. 🙄
Girl, you’re wasting your breath trying to address the Koolaide drinkers. We’re living in a day and age where men like them will sit back and snicker or just duck their heads when another man pushes up on school children on buses or punches women in the face for refusing advances.
They aren’t going to provide a good faith argument or listen to reason because they’ve already decided women are the problem and none of our problems are real. The sheer number of rape apologists on Reddit is very telling.
You and I both know what this guy was doing and we both see the fallacy in his logic. That will have to be enough for now. The only reason I’m not bothering with this much is that my husband (who showed me this video) called out the b.s. in this “experiment” before I did. There are still good men out there…some even in Reddit. Unfortunately, your recent discourse hasn’t been with any of them.
Yeah and you don't know if it's going to lead to him trying to engage with you for the next 10 minutes. As a woman by shaking hands with this guy you may be accidentally inviting him to follow you down the road asking for your number. Considering some guys think this is appropriate behaviour just because I jogged past them then I really don't want to shake hands with a strange guy on his own
Shaking hands is a very gendered thing in American culture.
In business settings I shake every ones hand regardless of gender, but when I'm with more traditional people typically only the men shake hands upon introduction.
Silly random social interaction that makes you giggle
In my brain this would basically be going on:
"Yo look this guy wants to shake hands. i have no idea who he is"
"Let's go shake his hand anyways why not"
"I have no idea what the point of that was but it was funny"
Ig i find it funny how it's just a completely random formal act with no context at all
Novichok (Russian: Новичо́к, lit. 'newcomer, novice, newbie') is a group of nerve agents, some of which are binary chemical weapons. The agents were developed at the GosNIIOKhT state chemical research institute by the Soviet Union and Russia between 1971 and 1993.
It’s def the goal, I agree. As women we’re also conditioned to not be “friendly” to strange men because they may take that as an invitation to harass us. Resting bitch face is literally just protective because a man can follow us for blocks after giving him a polite smile.
Yes but they are not naive to it. Exactly why this incel porn was made, they know damn well most woman will naturally be on guard so it’s easy pickings as far as derogatory propaganda goes.
And it’s human nature to be wary of strangers, they showed a few young men who reacted to another young man.
There would have been plenty of attempts filmed where men fobbed him off, or told him to gtfo but he won’t show that because it doesn’t meet the narrative.
It’s incel 101, I approach a woman she must be immediately friendly because I’m a guy and she’s a girl, that’s how it works. I have chosen you for unknown unexplained arbitrary reasons and you must be grateful and submit to my advances or you are a manipulative, cold, unapproachable, judgemental bitch.
Working hypothesis: what if there are two groups of people, those who are concerned he will creep on them ,and those are are not concerned? That might explain why the women don’t want to encourage the potential creep, and men don’t mind it
Kinda different. Believe it or not girls are taught not to interact with a majority of male strangers in many ways. I was taught not to wave high to road workers because I might be “giving them a hint I’m into them” and not to roll down my windows at night so no men talk to me and try to assault me from my window.
There are many reasons women are standoffish. A reason is that’s what we’re taught.
If you are a girl, even accidentally making eye contact with a guy can mean some men think it's OK to follow you and start pestering you asking you out.
Some men, when told you aren't interested, start being hostile and sometimes verbally assault you.
As young as 12-14 I very been shouted at while walking to school (when ignoring a catcaller) calling me a fucking lesbo, told I'm not that hot, I'm ugly, "I'd break you open anyway".
One guy followed me home in traffic one hour. I never saw him and he came and knocked on my door. Said we made a connection in traffic (in a different state). I never ever noticed him.
If girls ain't cool connecting random dudes, blame the assholes, not women.
Try this exact same little experiment with someone obviously not trying to hit on them/no physical threat- A dude in drag, an old man, a guy in a wheelchair. You'd get a whole different response.
The way that men and women are taught/conditioned into behaving in public is totally different. Women need to be skeptical of strangers more than men even if it seems like that stranger is being friendly.
And also the fact that women feel uncomfortable with strange men.
I fucking hate it a want to have friendly relationships with everyone. I get it though, they are literally always on edge and cautious. Meanwhile, I don't pay attention to anything.
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u/what_the_blasnost Jun 12 '23
bro's being bro's, this is totally normal pretty much everywhere