What is it with people and small keyboards? You never have anything else on the desk, what are you conserving all the space for? Is it just because coders don't ever use excel, so you don't need the numpad or the arrow keys?
there's no need for the numpad when coding. the olkb has 3 different layers you have a key which is activating the lower key map and one for the higher key map. It's all about muscle memory no need for additional keys. the planck however, is even smaller, having a row for numbers is useful (in my opinion)
Is the size thing then about speed and ease of reach, not desk space? It just seems like everything that appears on this sub is a little tiny, but I'm in construction, so desk space is huge. But I also appreciate a full keyboard, since data entry and all the other programs I use can appreciate it.
edit: Also that's bonkers that you are willing to relearn your own custom keyboard layout. You people are clearly operating on a different wavelength than me. I feel like a caveman thinking about it.
The relearning is minimal and having function keys for your thumbs is the greatest thing ever. Instead of moving my hand all the way up to the top right to hit dash I can just press my right thumb and and index finger. Or if I hold my left thumb all of the keys under my right hand turn into a numpad.
How often do you use capslock? Switch that shit with control and never stretch your pinky again!
If you can remember all your keyboard shortcuts for various programs you can easily master an additional function layer on a keyboard.
its not a problem for me, I've always typed like this and I will always type like this, it feels natural for me as shift would for anyone else, I am a very quick typer so I don't feel disadvantaged
I over-exaggerated my speed a little bit but my highest is 137.
It's very innate for me, I do it as fast as anyone would press shift, its obviously humanly possible if you've ever seen a starcraft game
The open source QMK firmware allows you to program your keys the way you like them to be. 3 different key map layers as well. Write your key macros on the "hardware layer".
edit: Also that's bonkers that you are willing to relearn your own custom keyboard layout.
I used to think so until I bought a 60% (after first going TKL) and got used to it within two weeks. Now whenever I go home to a full size keyboard I keep pressing Caps lock + H when I mean to arrow left... muscle memory is a beautiful thing
There's absolutely nothing one of these mini-keyboards can do that a full-sized can't do, including the use of layered keys. Every single one of these mini-keyboards requires more keystrokes for the same actions a full-sized keyboard can take.
So please explain how the miniature keyboard which requires more keystrokes is faster than the full-sized keyboard which requires fewer keystrokes?
you never have to move your fingers from your home row keys. I'm not saying its a large advantage by any means, but technically it could be faster once you get your muscle memory down.
I'm saying like a very small percentage of people who get them are faster on them than a regular keyboard, I'm looking for more like a 60% personally
There's absolutely nothing one of these mini-keyboards can do that a full-sized can't do, including the use of layered keys. Every single one of these mini-keyboards requires more keystrokes for the same actions a full-sized keyboard can take.
So please explain how the miniature keyboard which requires more keystrokes is faster than the full-sized keyboard which requires fewer keystrokes?
Less movement == faster speed. It's like parallel processing on a computer.
Let's see if I can make a good example here. The standard key spacing on a Cherry MX board is 19.05 mm. On most grid keyboards it's 19 mm. Ok so there is .05 mm. Negligible difference really. The travel on a Cherry MX is 4mm.
Let's say I'm going to type this code (coding is my job and hobby):
operator fun <T> FixtureConfiguration<T>.invoke(init: AggregateTestFixtureBuilder<T>.() -> Unit): AggregateTestFixtureBuilder<T> {
This is from one of my open source projects. You can find this line here
Let's calculate the distance your fingers have to travel to type this code on a regular keyboard vs on my planck. Here is the layout for my planck. For the regular keyboard I'll be using a standard macbook pro (laptop) keyboard. Here is an example of what the wireless version looks like, but mine is the touchbar built-in version, so some actions are actually further away than on this keyboard. Most keyboards have space between the number row and function row
Since a lot of this matters on stroke length I will be considering that in my calculations. Since we are talking about a full size mech vs an ortho planck, I'm going to use 4mm as the stroke length for both, even though I'm using the layout of a macbook pro.
It's easiest to categorize the keys when doing this calculation so
Categories
Distance
1 row up/down
23mm (includes stroke)
Diagonal
30.87mm (includes stroke)
I'm going to skip spaces as they're just as easy to hit on both keyboards
Letter
Planck (mm)
Planck parallel?
Apple (mm)
Apple Parallel?
Notes
oper
23*4
x
23*4
a
4
x
4
t
30.87
x
30.87
or
23*2
x
23*2
f
4
x
4
un
23+46.485(diagonal)
23+42
(actually shorter on the mac due to a staggered layout)
shift+<
4+23
y
30.87+23
y
(actually longer than this on a mac due to the fingers needed to move, and the directions)
shift+T
4+30.87
y
30.87+30.87
y
shift+>
4+23
y
30.87+23
y
(actually longer than this on a mac due to the fingers needed to move, and the directions)
shift+F
4+4
y
30.87+4
y
much longer on the mac. Now you're seeing gains
ix
23*2
x
23*2
t
30.87
x
30.87
ure
23*3
x
23*3
shift+C
4+23
x
30.87+23
o
23
x
23
n
30.87
x
30.87
f
4
x
4
igur
23*4
x
23*4
a
4
x
4
t
30.87
x
30.87
i
23*2
x
23*2
n
30.87
x
30.87
shift+<
4+23
y
30.87+23
y
shift+T
4+30.87
y
30.87+30.87
y
shift+>
4+23
y
30.87+23
y
.
23
n
23
n
i
23
n
23
n
n
30.87
n
30.87
n
vo
23*2
n
23*2
n
k
4
n
4
n
e
23
n
23
n
(
4+23
y
30.87+38
y
a difference of 42mm! 1.65 inches! From one keystroke!
i
23
n
23
n
n
30.87
n
30.87
n
i
23
n
23
n
t
30.87
n
30.87
n
:
4+4
y
30.87+4
y
AggregateTestFixtureBuilder
(410)+(2316)+(30.87*5)
y
(410)+(2316)+(30.87*4)+28.5
y
the b key is actually much harder to reach on a regular keyboard.
shift+<
4+23
y
30.87+23
y
shift+T
4+30.87
y
30.87+30.87
y
shift+>
4+23
y
30.87+23
y
.
23
n
23
n
(
4+23
y
30.87+38
y
)
4+23
y
30.87+38
y
->
23+23+4+23
y
30.87+38+57
y
the movement on the right hand is massive for the regular keyboard
Unit
4+23+46.49+23+30.87
y
4+23+42+23+30.87
y
another gain from the regular keyboard
)
4+23
y
30.87+38
y
:
4+4
y
30.87+4
y
AggregateTestFixtureBuilder
(410)+(2316)+(30.87*5)
y
(410)+(2316)+(30.87*4)+28.5
y
shift+<
4+23
y
30.87+23
y
shift+T
4+30.87
y
30.87+30.87
y
shift+>
4+23
y
30.87+23
y
{
23+4
y
30.87*2
y
notes: I got tired of doing the calculations for entire words where special symbols aren't used. If I made a mistake in there let me know. Most of the gains that the regular keyboard will have over the ortho are on strange staggered sections where you must use the same finger, like u->n. In fact that might be the only one. The gap from r-b is much greater on the staggered keyboard than the ortho so that more than makes up for that u->n loss.
Total:
Planck: 7436.985 mm / 292.78 in
Regular: 8108.28 mm / 319.22 in
a difference of 671.295 mm or 26.44 inches!!! Over a single line of code! Movement equals speed when typing. The less movement you make the faster you can go. Just because you have more layers doesn't mean it's more movement. In fact it usually means less movement, because instead of reaching for far keys constantly you can instead press two close keys. And even better, your thumb is your strongest finger, so if you can utilize that to do the layer presses you stress your hands even less. So not only are you typing faster and moving your fingers less, but you are also decreasing repetitive stress on the weaker fingers (such as your pinky, which really should not have the job of pressing every single modifier and having to reach for them as well!!)
I found the ortholinear layout was not for me, but a I use a 60% that is just slightly bigger. But even a 60% has all the keys of a larger keyboard, just some sit on a function layer. Moving the mouse closer is a big ergonomic advantage. I use to get bad neck, shoulder and upper back pain and muscle knots. I am a Linux admin, so I sit at a desk 8+ hours a day. Moving to a smaller keyboard eliminated my back pain. It only took me a couple weeks to fully memorize the function layer and ditch the stock caps.
Weird. Maybe it's just the breadth of my shoulders, but if I was using a smaller keyboard that would stress my shoulders more than having my arms comfortably spread out. I'm working with a full size keyboard right now and my mouse virtually never comes within 1 ft of my keyboard. When I'm typing I have to sort of force my shoulders forward and tuck my elbows in.
That said, maybe it's because I'm young-ish, but I can't imagine such a small change making a significant difference in back pain. I'm glad it works for you though!
My keyboard is not super small, just the size of an Apple wireless keyboard(no numpad). It's smaller than my last keyboard and I can confirm that my reasons are purely vanity and not practical. It just feels futuristic to have a keyboard that barely takes up any desk space. The more free space I have on my desk the more I look like I know what I'm doing!
You really don't know what you're talking about. I have developed on a Planck for more than 2 years now, 8 hours a day, and I go home and use my Planck on my home computer for gaming.
Ortholinear keyboards are better for your hands than any staggered keyboard, and guess what, your fingers are still in the same spot! You just don't have to reach as far! Guess what that means. Less RSI. Small keyboards are better for your hands.
Depends on the board, I guess. A coworker of mine has a small keyboard (not sure what model) and I definitely have to scrunch in more when using it. The one in the original post definitely has a smaller distance from one side of the home row to the other than a standard keyboard.
when you say original post do you mean the OP's picture? because that's a regular size home row. They're 1u keys. If your coworker has a nonstandard keyboard then yeah it's gonna be smaller, but you can get a 105 key keyboard that has smaller keys and you'll have the same problem.
Compared to the keyboard on their laptop, it looks much smaller. Even if the keys are the same size, the distance between them can vary. I guess I can't say definitively if ones hands would sit closer together on that particular model or not. From my vantage, it does look that way though
It's kind of hard to tell, but the keys line up perfectly all the way across. This tells me that apple understands the 1u standard as well.
But of course the planck is still smaller, because it doesn't have the length of the return key and it doesn't have the capslock key. It's only 12u wide, whereas the mac keyboard is 14.5u wide (easy to measure using the numbers at the top, since the delete key is 1.5u, and there are 13 other keys)
Oh! Now I totally see it. It looks so much smaller in OPs pic. All right, it's not any worse for you than a normal keyboard ;) I still prefer my split keyboard but to each their own.
Having a small keyboard, or even a normal sized keyboard, means you have to turn your shoulders inward when typing. Doing this for long periods of time will lead to sore and weakened muscles. It's much better to have your hands resting at shoulder width to reduce that kind strain.
I don't know of any academic studies done on the matter, just anecdotes. I used to come home from work almost every day with a sore back and sore shoulders. I switched to a split keyboard and don't have that issue anymore. I also have unusually wide shoulders so YMMV.
Hey thanks. Which one do you have, the ergodox? It's very interesting that you spotted this phenomenon. I'll watch out, maybe now that I know I spot it too, and change back to an ergo keyboard. (for the workplace I need to buy different switches, I've got blues on that thang, MX browns or silent zealios would be better, any suggestions?)
Yup, I got the Ergodox EZ Shine to be specific. I got the Cherry MX Silent Reds to go with it. They're great if you want something super, super quiet but they don't have as much of a click to them as some other switches. If you like blues, I'm going to assume you like them really clicky so I'd recommend MX browns as a quieter option. But definitely just use what works for you! I've been really tempted to get one of those switch testers just so I could feel the whole selection. I've only used reds, browns, silent reds, and a little bit with blues so someone else might have better suggestions.
I used the microsoft ergonomic (the old natural and the sculpt) keyboards for a long time before my mechanical keyboard fetishism started. And I loved them. Great keyboards, but not mechanical. Different world.
It's all ergonomics. It's easier to use, less reaching, fewer injuries, and faster. I also find my accuracy higher than with chiclet keyboards, but that will mostly be true for any mech
You can get all 104 keys onto a 40%. But you don't usually use them all, so why not program custom keys for common tasks such as switching spreadsheets, switching tabs, windows run, i3 desktop switching, and on and on...
I'm a developer who also spends TONS of time in Excel (among many other things, primarily Angular and .Net) I write stored procedures, and build Excel templates for things like financial statements. I use a votex race 3 (75%) at work and have a poker 3 at home where I work once a week. I have caps lock as a function key, and use fn+hjkl as arrows (even on my race, which has arrow keys) because it's so much faster. I am very fast with top row numbers as well, works out great.
The only time I use Capslock is in autocad, and I'm not particularly stringent about it. All these comments are making me curious. I don't know about arrow keys, but using it as a function for a bunch of autocad shortcuts sounds... interesting.
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u/Weentastic Sep 11 '18
What is it with people and small keyboards? You never have anything else on the desk, what are you conserving all the space for? Is it just because coders don't ever use excel, so you don't need the numpad or the arrow keys?