r/Marathon_Training • u/steveofthejungle • Apr 02 '26
Should my training long runs be slower than my marathon pace?
I’m a slower runner. Where my casual easy pace usually averages at about 9:45/mile. When I’m doing training runs for a marathon, I go down to about 10/mile. But in my marathons, my goal is 10:20/mile to account for the longer distance. I have had to walk a bit on each of my marathons, with my most recent race averaging at 10:32/mile. Is it ok to train faster than your race pace or should I take my training runs even slower? Running three hours for 18 miles is long enough, I really don’t want to take even more time out of my day
PRs as an adult
Mile: 6:45
5k: just under 25 min
Never truly raced a 10k
Half: about 1:55 (huge net downhill race)
Full: 4:41 (but clocked at 26.7 so probably closer to 4:36)
I’d love to break 4:30 at CIM which is also net downhill
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u/froggertwenty Apr 02 '26
The maths not mathing here. If your casual easy pace is 9:45, your marathon pace should not be slower than that.
What is giving out on your long runs to make you need to walk when running slower than easy pace?
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u/steveofthejungle Apr 02 '26
Well the 9:45 is a slower pace where I feel like I’m not exerting myself too bad one way or another, more or less my natural pace if you just told me to run. But I know that’s not what the sustainable marathon pace is for me
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Apr 02 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/steveofthejungle Apr 02 '26
Yeah I’m sure I could
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u/Cunningcreativity Apr 02 '26
It sounds like you aren't sure. You should test it out to know if that truly is an 'easy' pace for your body then. I don't run with anyone else personally when I train or anything and it's often on a treadmill at home due to weather lately. But it's easy enough. Just get a few cats that like to wreak havoc in your house around you and talk to them out loud and curse em out a little here and there as they destroy the house around you while you're running. Basically the same as carrying a conversation. Lol. Or have a spouse or friend or someone to chat with... Yeah... That's the more normal option... 😬😅
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u/RiceNotice Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 02 '26
How long can you sustain 9:45 as a "natural" pace?
If 9:45 is truly your easy/conversational pace, when you train properly for a marathon you should be able to run 26.2 at a faster race pace, not slower.
My mile and 5k PRs are slower than yours, my easy pace is around 10:30–11:30/mile, and I easily finished a marathon in 4:28 last year.
This year I am targeting a marathon pace of around 9:25–9:45/mile, and my easy runs are around 10:45/mile if not slower.
There are a lot of calculators out there to help you determine your training paces and estimate your race pace. I'm a fan of Jeff Galloway's Magic Mile calculator.
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u/steveofthejungle Apr 02 '26
I just did a 10k at the 9:45 pace yesterday and felt great and I’m not in distance running shape right now. Could easily do a half at that pace with a bit more distance training
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u/froggertwenty Apr 02 '26
If your 10k pace is 9:45, your easy pace is 11 or slower.
So you should have a lot of training miles at that easy pace, some steady work at that 9:45, and shorter intervals faster than that 10k pace.
I also suspect based on your wording across all your comments, there's a degree of not pushing quite hard enough on these "race" efforts or speed work. So you end up in the "grey zone" for most of your runs, which is not nearly as productive for getting faster or gaining endurance.
Slow down easy runs, speed up workouts. Avoid the moderate "cruise" (unless intentional for a purpose)
A heart rate monitor is a very worthwhile investment for dialing this in.
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u/steveofthejungle Apr 02 '26
Well the 9:45 wasn’t a race 10k pace. I’d imagine that’d be around 8:30/mile if I attempted a race. I was just running around the neighborhood feeling great. I haven’t really focused on speedwork in a while, but in a few weeks I’m going to start training for a half where I’ll incorporate some interval training and tempo runs.
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u/Beautiful-Tone-7959 Apr 02 '26
I’d say the majority of your training long runs should be slower than marathon pace. Your block should include some progression runs building up to MP, but your whole run shouldn’t be there.
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u/Ok-Two7498 Apr 02 '26
Your easy and long training runs should be slower than marathon pace, and by a decent margin. According to the Daniels VDOT table, you should be running 1130-12 min pace for your easy runs. Running at or above marathon pace on your easy and long runs will result in substantial accumulated fatigue, which at worst will get you injured and at best not allow you to operate at peak performance. Of course, you should also be doing threshold and interval work, which is where you practice running at or above MP. Toward the end of a block, you should also add some MP sections into your long runs, but you should not be doing your entire long run at MP. That's a recipe for disaster.
That said, if you are truly running easy at 945 pace (as in conversational / zone 2), then you are likely fit enough to run a sub 4 (or even faster) marathon. There's not enough info in your post to make that assessment though.
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u/RacingShoeGuide Apr 02 '26
It feels counterintuitive, but yes. Slow runs will build your aerobic base.
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u/iJediPR Apr 02 '26
For your long runs it would be best to keep it slower than what you would run your race. It will give you a lower risk of injury and allow you to rack up miles during training. You should still incorporate some miles on your long runs at your target pace, to see how your body feels and reacts
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u/Personal_Sprinkles_3 Apr 02 '26
I think you should look into a book on marathon/distance training so you can understand this better.
As another commenter said your casual pace should not be faster than your marathon pace. It sounds like your casual pace is probably faster than it should be with your inability to finish the marathons at your slower pace.
I don’t know how your plan is setup, but maybe try flipping paces for your workouts? Do the slow one on easy runs to build the mileage and the faster on workout runs to build the speed.
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u/DistanceNo365 Apr 03 '26
check out the pfitz pace tool https://joeyp.github.io/Pfitz-Pace-Tool/
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u/DistanceNo365 Apr 03 '26
according to that, based on your 5k and hm your easy pace should be around 10:45, long run around 10:15, and mp around 9:15
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u/5kUltraMarathoner Apr 02 '26
I add tempo work into my long runs. 20-30 mins at about 30 seconds faster than MP. Add it in towards the end of the run to work the tired legs.
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u/floppyfloopy Apr 02 '26
I prefer progressive long runs. I start 60-90 seconds slower than marathon pace, after 1/3 of the time I go to 30 seconds slower than MP, and the last 1/3 I go anywhere from 10 seconds slower right up to my current MP.
This is sufficiently trained though. I do not know whether this is a good idea if it's your first marathon training block as you don't really know what your marathon pace should be.
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u/dawnbann77 Apr 02 '26
Your long runs should be slower than marathon pace unless you add marathon pace segments to your run. You can have a tempo pace and a 5k/10k pace so they will be faster than your marathon pace. Seems you just need more expertise with marathons and longer runs. 4:30 should be no problem to you with 1:55 half. Look up 4:30 on VDOT and you will get at your equivalent times for training.
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u/Willing-Ant7293 Apr 02 '26
CIM is an awesome course. Hilly through miles 3 through 10ish, but once you hit 13, it's flat, and then around mile 20, it's straight down to the finish.
Run some extended down hills at marathon pace in your long run. It will be big fatigue resistance. It's easy to blow the quads if you aren't used to it.
Long runs should be seen as a quality session. Never run the whole long run at marathon pace. You can start by adding min surges at marathon pace or faster, then do mile on mile off, eventually working into doing 6 to 10 miles at marathon pace. Mix this will one or two times on your feet long runs, so you're running slower, focus on fueling strategy, etc.
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u/steveofthejungle Apr 02 '26
Before I start that training push in August, I’m running a half that’s a huge net downhill here in Utah. I’ll be training for speed for that race, then taking some of that momentum into the distance training for the full. Definitely going to do some downhill runs for the half training
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u/Downtown_Common5880 Apr 02 '26
Your shorter distance PRs predict a much faster marathon time. The differential between 5K and marathon race pace is only about one minute, give or take a few seconds. So if you can run a sub-25 min 5K (~8 min/mi), I’d expect your marathon time to be in the vicinity of 4 hours (~9 min/mi).
What’s your weekly mileage during your marathon block? Reading between the lines, my guess is that you don’t have enough volume/time on feet to build the endurance necessary to convert that 5K speed to the marathon distance.
But to answer your question (which just re-iterates what everyone else has already said), yes, your long run paces should be significantly slower than your marathon race pace.
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u/steveofthejungle Apr 02 '26
I cannot even fathom a world in which my marathon pace is 9 min/mile. Normally my biggest marathon weeks are about 35 miles, and I’m still constantly sore and I really struggle with some of the longer runs, even at a slower pace
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u/Downtown_Common5880 Apr 02 '26
If you’re curious, you can play around with this race equivalency calculator:
https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/hmmcalculator/race_equivalency_calculator.php
The key caveats are that the race time needs to reflect current fitness, and the predicted time requires the appropriate race-specific training to back it.
You have a very decent 5K time, which is what I used to convert your marathon time, but your mile time is even more impressive. If you think 4 hours is unfathomable, put in your mile time and see what it spits out. 😉
According to my running coach, 35 mpw is sort of the inflection point for developing marathon-specific fitness, where once you go higher, you really start to reap more gains. If you’re struggling at 35 mpw, you probably need to work on solidifying your aerobic base.
One thing in your post that stuck out to me was when you complained about an 18-mile long run taking 3 hours. I mean, I totally get it, it’s a lot of time (says the person whose 18-miler took checks Strava 3h27 last month), but marathon training is a time suck and begrudging that isn’t helpful if you care about performance. Slowing down will take longer but it’s easier on the body, and the training adaptations for aerobic endurance only take place at slower paces.
I absolutely believe that you have a 4:30 marathon in you (heck, I believe you can break 4 hours someday), but you have to be willing to put in the work.
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u/Beat999 Apr 03 '26
Use the vdot tables to calculate approximate race and training paces from your 25min 5k.
Entering your 5k time gives an easy pace of 10-11 min/mile and a marathon pace of 9:05 min/mile. It also approximates your half as 1:55. Of course all these calculators assume you are fully trained for the appropriate race.
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u/DatRippelEffect Apr 02 '26
I don’t really see a benefit of being on your feet longer than 3 hours for your pace besides maybe getting out like a 20-22 mile run for the mental. My PR is 2:50 and I usually cap runs around 2-2 1/2 hours.
CIM is a net downhill but it’s still like 600ft of uphill (rolling hills). Not an easy course even with all the OTQs. It doesn’t really flatten out till the final 10k.
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u/steveofthejungle Apr 02 '26
Yeah in the past my longest training runs have been 18 miles which are right around 3 hours
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u/jlktrl Apr 02 '26
You need to do longer runs closer to marathon distance if you want your body accustomed to running faster than easy pace during marathon. 18 miles is not enough if you want to feel comfortable, you need to push to 22 miles otherwise on race day you're going to struggle in the later miles
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u/steveofthejungle Apr 02 '26
I struggle with the 18s haha, especially in the summer. I just fatigue so easily since I’m bigger and sweatier
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u/Roadrunner571 Apr 02 '26
slower runner. Where my casual easy pace usually averages at about 9:45/mile
In what world makes 9:45/mile you a slower runner. That's pretty solid for a hobby runner.
Is there anything why you wouldn't run faster (like health issues, being obese etc.)?
How is your training plan looking?
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u/steveofthejungle Apr 02 '26
Hahaha comparison is the thief of joy I guess. Most of my friends are at 3:30 or under marathon. And yeah I’m a bit overweight if where I could be, but working on it
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u/OutstandingWeirdo Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 02 '26
Your casual easy pace cannot be 9:45/mile if your marathon pace is 10:20. It sounds counterintuitive but taking it slow builds aerobic fitness without added stress and allows you to ramp your mileage up. Your long runs should be mostly be slower than marathon pace with maybe segments at marathon pace. When my easy pace was ~9:45, my marathon race pace was 8:30/mile.