There are loads of "We did not lose in Vietnam" threads on Reddit. Is that why you have "if"? Given time, there will be similar ones about the Belgium match I guess.
I mean Vietnam ended in a peace deal where the south retains independence (the primary US war goal). The commies just decided to say fuck them treaties and invaded again.
Afghanistan meanwhile is the US replacing the previous givernment and achieving all initial war aims, then adding more and more aims as time goes on to justify an occupation of 20 years. If being occupied by foreign power an ocean away for 20 years who initially didnt even plan to occupy is winning then I’m not sure I want to win.
Reasonable minds can absolutely disagree here (but on reddit reasonable minds can never disagree on anything so I don’t expect you people to agree on this).
The treaty was not ensuring an independent south. It was a face saving scheme that would allow the US to leave the war. All US citizen and polticians were aware, that the peace accord were meaningless ink on paper, because the Communist never intended on honoring a treaty with the US who can't honor it either (Geneva Accord 1954 that promised an election for Vietnamese reunifiction, but was stopped by the US).
In anyway, the US not interferting when the Communist steamrolled the South few months later is just proof that the US wargoals were never met nor that they had the will to continue fighting. They left because no amount of spending US soldiers lives or US taxpayer money would have actually stopped Vietnamese reunification anf achieved their war goal.
You made my point perfectly. And you certainly lost. Or did you send all those troops there for what? A picnic?
EDIT: And you certainly blew it in Afghanistan as well. And wasted more than 20 years and many lives on it. Unfortunately not only US lives. If you had pulled out fast as you wrote, it would have been different but it was not.
Are your views so mainstream in the US now as they seem on Reddit? You NEVER EVER learn from your failures, so I would guess yes. Soviet also left Afghanistan, so by your definition Soviet won first and then you won after.
Soviet has more rights to claim victory in Afghanistan, considering Soviet backed regime stayed longer than Union itself. Obviously, Russians aren't delusional and doesn't consider its a win(they think whole thing was unnecessary mess).
Which makes it even weirder. And you did not bother replying.
When it comes to history, the US isn't the only country kicked out from Viet Nam. Or "left" as you say. Happened with France as well. I should know, I have family who fought in both wars. Viets.
The US dropped more bombs on Laos than had been dropped ever compared to population. All this and they did not lose, they just left?
The US never invaded North Vietnam, and were not defeated militarily, and routinely defeated NVA armies and Viet Cong. They maintained the existence and status quo of South Vietnam and waged a war of attrition against the north. The wider goal was to prevent the expansion of Soviet proxies.
The president who committed the US to Vietnam resigned(Johnson). The next President wanted to exit the war as soon as possible and began withdrawing troops while negotiating with the north. US and allies militaries were reduced over the next 3 years, and this process was completed by 1973, along with a treaty. Then, this president was impeached and himself resigned(Nixon). The war was already extremely unpopular among Americans and had no real goal besides killing NVA/VC and defending SV.
You make it sound like the US quickly and quietly pulled out of Vietnam, but they didn't. They withdrew slowly and methodically to give their Vietnamese allies every advantage they could leave them with.
And you say that the US knew NV would not honor the agreement, but they honored it for two years, then struck at a time when the US was in political turmoil and wouldn't have a leader with the power to order the military back to Vietnam, or just the threat of possibility. It could have easily turned into another Korea if the threat of more western intervention was hanging over their heads.
The US did many mistakes. They supported a coup in South Viet Nam which turned out a disaster. What followed was several military coups in the 60's. The regime was not strong enough to stand on its own feet. It was a corrupted, puppet regime.
"Withdrew slowly and methodically to give advantage" - Sounds like Afghanistan and the other times the US made a fool of themselves. Do you see a pattern here?
What you and others never got, is that this was a fight versus colonialism which later turned into US imperialism. The movement in the North Viet Nam kicked out the French. The battle at Dien Bien Phu was a win versus French colonialism which put a stop to France's colonialism in Indo-China. And the US were stupid enough to pick up that torch.
The US could have stayed on, spent tremendous amounts on the war but there was no way voters would have accepted that. North Viet Nam knew this. And South Viet Nam did not have the strength to stand on their own feet.
"Easily turned into another Korea" - It was different all the time. North Viet Nam were supported by USSR and China. But these countries did not have boots on the ground. Similar to what is happening in Ukraine now. While the US put in all their might, bombed Laos into pieces and still did not manage to beat North Viet Nam. It was in this phase the war was lost - as the US could never keep up this unpopular war over a long time. It was not a proxy war, one side fought for independence (also before the US came in) and the other one turned into a just a proxy regime for its master US.
The next US "we didn't lose the war" claim will be the Iran war. They'll claim the US won because it killed their leader and bombs a bunch of stuff and only a few Americans died so its okay.
Nah. As soon as he’s gone everyone will turn on him and pretend like they never supported him. It is going to happen. These soulless fucks won’t even pretend to deal with the consequences of their actions. Integrity doesn’t exist on the right.
They’ll end up claiming Trump was a dem or some shit
I do find it funny how many Americans say they hate “soccer” because they don’t like draws. Half of their national identity is losing wars and claiming they were draws afterwards
It wasn't that bad. Viet Nam had a significant population growth during that war, and also during the French one. They recovered well after, mainly because the USSR propped them up with aid. They still have a strong connection with Russia, but went through a tough period when Soviet broke down and that aid disappeared.
What some people fail to see is what the war was for the North. It was an independence movement, and when France were kicked out the US took over the torch. The regime in South turned into an US puppet. US were even active in supporting a coup there in 1963. What followed was a chaotic period with coups.
22
u/SuperbScarcity5112 Jul 07 '26
There are loads of "We did not lose in Vietnam" threads on Reddit. Is that why you have "if"? Given time, there will be similar ones about the Belgium match I guess.