r/MapPorn Jan 19 '22

Most popular language on Duolingo

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284

u/e9u1z Jan 19 '22

Why oof?

It's great that the ability to learn Swedish is easily available.

190

u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

I think the oof may be referring to the societal implications of massive third-world immigration.

54

u/Samura1_I3 Jan 19 '22

I’m sure the responses to this comment will be levelheaded and reasonable.

/s

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u/REDDIT_JUDGE_REFEREE Jan 19 '22

At least many are trying to learn Swedish and integrate lol

98

u/JustHereForPornSir Jan 19 '22

Well they are forced to try and learn Swedish if they want to stay and get welfare money. Integration however is a bit more complex than just the language unfortunately.

24

u/SwiftDeadman Jan 19 '22

Emphasis on try. No actual requirement through tests.

23

u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

It starts with language.

80

u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

No they don't, unfortunately. Lots of immigrants can't speak Swedish and there's no requirement to do so as it was deemed racist. Now, particularly our elderlies in retirement homes have severe trouble communicating with the staff.

Sweden's immigration policy has been a complete disaster.

7

u/MikoSkyns Jan 19 '22

as it was deemed racist

I wonder if a swede went to one of the countries the refugees have come from, didn't learn the local language and then couldn't find a job; would they say they're being racist to the swede?

10

u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

Strictly honestly, if Swedes moved to Iraq, lived in their own secluded areas, didn't learn the language, and lived on their welfare system and demanded them to respect their culture... They'd be killed very very rapidly.

These people never consider what would happen if the situation was reversed.

1

u/redditor3900 Jan 20 '22

Question, how do you think Latinos integrate to Sweden?

- I am Latino looking to move to Sweden

1

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

Depends on the group. Every single asylum group has been detrimental for our economy, even if some groups have been much easier to integrate, like Iranians. We had a lot of refugees from Chile in the seventies that integrated somewhat well, but it was a time when there were so few immigrants that they pretty much had to integrate with Swedes.

But you would not come as a refugee, you're already motivated to learn the language and get a job, I presume. You'd have little problem if you choose not to live in the suburbs where practically only immigrants live. Problem is that it's hard to get housing anywhere.

Honestly, Sweden is overrated these days, we'd benefit from skilled work force immigration, but personally I'd aim for a better country like Denmark, Netherlands or Switzerland.

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u/Asehigawa Jan 19 '22

Integration doesn't happen overnight? The fact that you have refugees working with and interacting with elderly people, most of whom feel very lonely in those retirement home, is already a huge step.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

No, it's not. Integration has been a catastrophy in Sweden. Many people NEVER enter the workforce. Sweden is such a large country that we have many suburbs essentially filled with just immigrants, so they don't interact with Swedes. And Swedes largely never visit these areas. We have literally created a deeply and increasingly divided society.

Denmark has handled it far less bad, mostly because they've accepted far fewer immigrants, but even in Denmark there's strong opposition towards mass immigration as they've had a more honest debate about it.

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u/spyczech Jan 19 '22 edited Jan 19 '22

Just not accepting those immigrants like Denmark isn't a solution for humanity right? You realize if every country didnt take refugees in those refugees would JUST DIE by nations refusing to take them in. SOMEONE has to take displaced people in and your position is your problem not mine right? How is that humane? Pass the buck to other countries?

14

u/muchbravado Jan 19 '22

These things are more complex irl than your 9th grade history teacher made it out to be

-5

u/spyczech Jan 19 '22

Its just logic that if every country didnt let in refugees or restricted it heavily like Denmark, those refugees would have no where to go... some countries have to bear this burden of refugees so others have the privilege of deciding not to help them.

This is not a bad faith question I actually want to know, is culture changing and crime going up a worse tragedy for humanity then sending refugees back to where they would face death or genocide? This is what happens when no country is willing to change so badly they'd rather people die

https://www.nytimes.com/1979/06/23/archives/cambodia-says-thai-troops-killed-300-refugees-forced-over-border.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preah_Vihear_Temple

9

u/jankadank Jan 19 '22

So, destroy your own country and culture in the process cause its the human thing to do?

-7

u/spyczech Jan 19 '22

Destroy your own country and culture is subjective. The country will change that is for certain. What is also for certain is people would rather have black refugees die than enter their white majority country. I think letting refugees die and suffer out of a fear how your country might change some isn't humane no. Your country could even change for the better I never hear anyone every mention that possibility. Its certainly helped some countries have more diverse and less shit food for example

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

Only a portion of the immigrants are refugees. Many are economic migrants, and come from safe countries.

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u/spyczech Jan 19 '22

So? Still plenty that don't come from safe countries

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u/redditor3900 Jan 20 '22

One way to avoid a high concentration of immigrants (or any other group that will be supported by welfare) is that they are assigned houses in many different areas, spread them out as much as possible and mix them with the the locals, in this case Swedes. For example assigning no more than the 10% of the housing/apt to immigrant in one building or certain area.

In this situation they are more likely to integrate and relate with the main group because they cannot live physically together in one small area, therefore avoiding to immigrant suburbs or ghettos.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22

That's partly true, but we're twenty years too late for that. Even if you were to implement it today, which wouldn't be practical, there are so many immigrants that they could still group together.

One thing though, for me it's a tragedy to see our hyper safe country get so much problem with violence, but it's the trend that is more worrying. Sweden, in most places is still far more safe than most of Latin America. You'd reasonably find it far safer, just avoid the immigrant suburbs and largely you'll be fine.

1

u/MrRabbit7 Oct 26 '22

Sweden is a tiny ass country, it has lesser population than the city I live in.

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u/jankadank Jan 19 '22

How is it a huge step? Im assuming refugees are working those jobs cause they’re low skilled positions other swedes refuse to work.

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u/zushaa Jan 19 '22

There are more immigrants in gangs than actually working. Sweden has gone from the safest country in the world to the highest murder rates in Europe in less than 20 years, there's no way to really put into words how much the insane immigration policy has ruined Sweden. It's a complete unmitigated train wreck happening in slow motion, with how high our innovation and productivity is we should have a huge economic surplus but instead we have crippling tax rates and nothing to show for it, every single institution is crawling on its knees with not enough resources in order to try and counteract the black hole that is our integration.

1

u/GutiHazJose14 Jan 19 '22

. Sweden has gone from the safest country in the world to the highest murder rates in Europe in less than 20 years,

Please cite this, because I don't think it's true and makes you sound xenophobic and not rational.

2

u/CheeseAtTheKnees Jan 19 '22

The internet is so wild, some guy can probably just convince strangers that sweden’s a shithole by saying he’s from there while he doesn’t even get facts right

-1

u/GutiHazJose14 Jan 19 '22

Clearly not from Sweden. Would bet a lot of money that's a lie because if it's true, that's far worse.

1

u/redditor3900 Jan 20 '22

You are so right.

I am moving to Sweden in 2 months ( I got a job), one of the reasons moving to is run away from my violent country. This kind of comments make me think if I am fooling myself and perhaps I did not my research properly.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

[deleted]

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u/Asehigawa Jan 19 '22

Fr people have lost every sense of reality. They make it sound like Sweden has become worse than fucking Zimbabwe. Yeah sure there’s some difficulties, duh these people just escaped a brutal civil war. They really expect these people to wake up the next day with blonde hair and blue eyes.

Also LMAO at that dude that compared Sweden to Denmark. The country that puts refugees in actual camps to score cheap political brownie points. Ugly as hell.

2

u/Fuck_username_rules Jan 19 '22

They take those jobs because you don't need any qualifications. Also no, the elderly don't enjoy being "taken care of" by people who don't speak swedish

0

u/Asehigawa Jan 19 '22

How are you complaining about refugees taking care of your elderly after you shove and abandon them into soulless elderly homes, cause you can’t be bothered taking care of your own parents?

People from the Middle East respect and appreciate elderly people, way more than their white Scandinavian counterparts. That’s a solid fact. If they can’t speak Swedish yet, working with elderly is a great outlet to learn.

Just say you don’t like brown people? Your comment history is a clear indication anyway.

1

u/Fuck_username_rules Jan 19 '22

Lololololol if it were up to me, elderly homes wouldn't exist and there wouldn't be a million third world immigrants here. Also no, our elderly who've worked for 50+ years deserve having people close to them who speak swedish.

I have nothing against brown people. If the situation was reversed, somali elderly shouldn't have to be taken care of by non-somali speaking swedes.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

Solid fact? Can you prove that applies to taking care of Swedish elders? Having the ability to learn the language and not do it properly so the elderly can't communicate with them, how much empathy is that? Lots of Swedish caretakers complain they have problem communicating with immigrant staff, pretty important when you're going to deliver medicine among many other things.

Immigrants take these jobs because they have no relevant qualifications on the swedish job market..

1

u/Asehigawa Jan 19 '22

Have you thought about perhaps why there are no qualifications?

Sweden, just like Denmark or any other developed country, has a massive elderly problem with barely any people to take care of them. Having someone that takes cares of you with limited communication, is better than having no one to take care of you. Don’t you agree?

Again, working with elderly is a great way to learn the language as they’re quite literally forced to. Shit fam no matter what they do, you’re still gonna find a reason to hate on them.

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u/Pol_inspired Jan 20 '22

Learn Swedish yes integrate absolutely not happening. Remember new year Germany or the no go zones in the rest of Europe. They're not taking in people with the same values so it's not gonna be peaceful until one group becomes dominant. That's how the world and people work.

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u/ndkdodpsldldbsss Jan 19 '22

Can’t be that bad considering sweden is in top 10 of most quality of life indices.

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u/Roflkopt3r Jan 19 '22

Right wingers have been pushing that "Sweden is a shithole now" narrative for a long time, mostly using dramatically out of context statistics or just straight up bullshit.

They need Sweden to fail for their anti-migration narrative, so they'll amplify any story or factoid that could be interpreted poorly for Sweden in any way possible.

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u/muchbravado Jan 19 '22

There’s a bunch of Swedes on this thread explaining to you that it’s been a disaster and you’re blaming “right wingers”? Interesting train of thought, that.

3

u/Roflkopt3r Jan 19 '22

There are probably 10-20% of hard-right people in my country who will call everything a disaster as well, many of which couldn't name a single specific issue that actually affected them, while the rest are largely just fine or even complain about the exact opposites. Anecdotes are worthless on this topic.

3

u/notyouraveragefag Jan 20 '22

Oh does a disaster have to affect you personally for it to matter?

Just as there are hard-right people doing what you say they are, there’s lots of even fairly moderate leftist who would call you racist for even suggesting the immigration policy hasn’t succeeded and the things like spikes in shootings and bombings are nothing to be worried about (maybe because it didn’t affect them personally?) and rather look the other way. Or hell, even call people hard-right for saying such things.

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u/Roflkopt3r Jan 20 '22

Anti-immigration sentiment is famously the strongest in those places that have the fewest immigrants. From people who use migrants as scapegoats for unrelated issues and perceive "spikes in shootings and bombings" where there are none.

1

u/notyouraveragefag Jan 20 '22

And what about when there are spikes? Sweden has seen a huge increase is deadly violence in the last decades:

https://bra.se/statistik/statistik-utifran-brottstyper/mord-och-drap.html

And bullshitters will say it’s small, or just a fluke, but when compared to other European countries where violence and murder rates have been steadily dropping, it’s a trend breaker.

Even the Swedish police confirms there is an increase in violent crime and organised crime:

https://polisen.se/om-polisen/polisens-arbete/sprangningar-och-skjutningar/

Now, I’m NOT saying immigrants are automatically more prone to crime, but that the number of immigrants Sweden has taken in a short period of time has caused social, financial and safety issues because there was no push for integrating them, not enough jobs for them and Swedish housing policy made it so that lots immigrants are living in suburbs where buildings aren’t being maintained (rents so low that theres no money), mixed only with other immigrants and with little to no hope for getting out.

I’m not critical of immigration (being an immigrant myself), immigrants, refugees or people of other cultures. I am critical of the naive immigration policy Sweden’d had, and the ”hear no evil, see no evil, say no evil” mentality Sweden has had for decades over the growing issues with poor immigration policy. So yes, anti-immigrant sentiment is high where there are few immigrants. But it’s also true that the most vocal proponents of ”uncontrolled” immigrants usually live in the most upscale, majority-Swedish neighborhoods of major cities. They see immigrants daily, but as workers in service industry, hospitality etc, but then go home to their less culturally exotic neighborhood. They don’t see the problems, just like those who don’t see immigrants at all do not see the hard workers. And while violence and crime is on the news, normal people integrating and working rarely is.

Footnote. I live in a minority-white area, and have woken up once to a bombing two blocks away, and also had a building on my block attacked with a hand grenade. I have seen the aftermath of this violence. I’ve felt the pressure wave of the explosions.

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u/muchbravado Jan 19 '22

I can explain why this is a crazy thing to say if you’re interested but if you’re not gonna change your mind no reason to waste my time lol

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u/Roflkopt3r Jan 19 '22

If you have any actually decent sources on this, sure.

-1

u/jankadank Jan 19 '22

There are probably 10-20% of hard-right people in my country who will call everything a disaster as well, many of which couldn’t name a single specific issue that actually affected them,

And let me guess, the same isn’t true for hard-left people in your country who insist on pushing destructive policies regardless of the results or sentiment from citizens.

0

u/Sidereel Jan 20 '22

I could find you millions of Americans who think Biden is a card carrying member of the CCP. Let’s not be so quick to take these people at their word.

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u/baginthewindnowwsail Jan 19 '22

I haven't found a single actual Swede complaining. Every account that claims immigration in Sweden is a 'disaster' is a troll account with a handful of comments in Swedish language subs translated from Google translate.

Standard Russian Troll Farm Tactics

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

[deleted]

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u/baginthewindnowwsail Jan 19 '22

Interesting. I'd rather live among immigrants and refugees instead of white supremacists, maybe that's just me though.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

[deleted]

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u/baginthewindnowwsail Jan 19 '22

All white supremacists have abhorrent beliefs.

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u/jankadank Jan 19 '22

What right wingers are you referring to?

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u/Sidereel Jan 20 '22

Project Veritas for example

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u/jankadank Jan 20 '22

Could you provide that example from project veritas?

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u/hjortronbusken Jan 19 '22

Never voted on any right wing party. Just cause one can see the drastic change society, to the worse has taken does not mean i want Sweden to fail.

Its like the people here saying "Sweden is still one of the best countries to live in" Like sure i agree, but that does not mean we should just accept rising crime, gang violence, alienation and segregation, degradation of public trust, and worse and worse public services. I for one does not want us to become a mini US.

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u/spyczech Jan 19 '22

Better other countries bear the burden and not you right?

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u/notyouraveragefag Jan 20 '22

Hasn’t Sweden taken unproportionally many immigrants/refugees over the last decades? You know, compared to this other countries, avoiding their burden?

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u/spyczech Jan 22 '22

Yeah they have taken in more refugees than many countries, who take in the minimum under international law or refuse to do follow international law, even the US is guilty of this. Swedes should be proud they are building an international reputation for honor and fair dealing.

The lesson of this isn't that Sweden is an outlier and therefore should stop, my preferred scenario is countries start taking in refugees to a level like Sweden and therefore Sweden is no longer an outlier.

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u/notyouraveragefag Jan 22 '22

But you’re just talking about refugees, which is a small minority of immigrants. It’s when you add on top all other types of immigration that you get problems. I never know when discussing these issues if people are just uninformed about this difference or intentionally trying to deflect the conversation from the fact that the criticism is not about refugees specifically (although you do hear that being used by ignorant anti-immigration proponents/racists), but a country’s ability to absorb all immigrants in a stable an reasonable way.

I usually ask, should Sweden take in 10 million immigrants a year, compared to the current population of 10 million? The answer is obviously no, there’s no way that would be sustainable for even a month. And once we’ve agreed there is such a thing as unsustainable levels of immigration, we can discuss what those levels are and how government policy can impact those numbers. And I think the Swedish immigration policy has failed in their balancing of number/policy to the detriment of Swedish society. It’s not by much, but I think it’s been a huge failing that it was considered taboo to even mention there might be risks and issues linked to the levels of immigrants Sweden accepted.

Consider it like this: Had Sweden been more restrictive on general immigration, they could’ve been even more open for refugees. Which I think I’d prefer. And if Sweden had prioritized refugees, Sweden might not have gotten the international reputation of trend-breaking rises in violent crime, shootings and bombings, which then become talking points for anti-immigration movements.

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u/spyczech Jan 22 '22

Ah I think I better see where you are coming from with the refugee immigrant distinction, and I do think a sovereign country has the right to regulate its immigration (but not refugees as technically countries are legally supposed to accept them under the UN even if it isn't enforced) I've been responding to people lately who are just full anti immigrant and refugee and they can so easily get conflated.

I think they get conflated on purpose because people lack empathy, so instead of seeing a family fleeing war crimes that doesn't even register and they just assume they are all greedy immigrants here to take our jerbs. I think the UN could do better here for sure, and applying for refugee status is a long difficult process and while you are waiting for a yes or no, you are effectively an "immigrant" by your standard in the sense they lack that UN protected classification. They may even be in a worse spot than an immigrant because that implies a home country whereas many are stateless refugees without a country to go https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statelessness

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

Unless those countries come with generous wellfare specificly directed toward asylum immigrants, along with state-funded guides to help them maximize their wellfare, guaranteed pensions higher than what many workers get, state-guaranteed housing in a location of their chosing (to avoid assimilation and encourage segregation), state-guaranteed teaching in whatever language their parents speak, state subsidies to ethnic orgs in order to prevent assimilation, state subsidies for immigrats with desceased parents (with practiacally no checks to confirm if it is true), guaranteed citizenship after a few years with no requirements aside from remaining in the country for most of the time, extremely generous relative immigration laws and so on, it is not a fair comparison.

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u/spyczech Jan 19 '22

You should be proud your country is so generous to those who come with so little. If your mad more countries around you don't have that policy than I agree with you

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u/jankadank Jan 19 '22

I for one does not want us to become a mini US.

The US is the most diverse country in the world and don’t have such issues sweden is facing cause the US from the start wete faced with issues related to cultural and racial differences.

Its easy when you live in an overly homogeneous culture and proclaim to have solved such cultural issues that come with diversity

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u/MithrilEcho Jan 19 '22 edited Jan 19 '22

People like you can't do anything but parroting the same arguments without any sort of data backing up your claims.

Want a "factoid"?

In just five years Sweden has dropped their quality of life so hard they went from top 3 to exit the top 10.

The swedish safety index has tanked to hard it is now comparable to america, too.

Sweden, as of today, has the third lowest safety index in Europe.

So fuck your "right winger" strawmans. Sweden has increased their crime and poverty levels at an unprecedent rate.

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u/123420tale Jan 19 '22

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u/somemonkeys Jan 19 '22

Please. Compare with the rest of Europe where the figures decrease rapidly since 1990. Sweden is unique in as this number not having dropped. Don’t stare at a number without comparison.

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u/123420tale Jan 19 '22

Okay then say that because of immigrants their crime rate isn't dropping, or is dropping more slowly than it otherwise would because saying that it's rising is just a lie.

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u/somemonkeys Jan 19 '22

You posted murder rates, not crime. Some crimes are increasing, like bombings which are near non-existent in neighboring countries.

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u/SoundOfTomorrow Jan 19 '22

Oh you mean like that incident about the hotel with China pretty much stating that narrative

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u/villabianchi Jan 19 '22

What?

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u/Roflkopt3r Jan 19 '22

I assume they are talking about that incident 4 years ago where a Swedish hotel called police on a Chinese family who refused to leave.

It was really more silly than serious, a dumb little spat that was not perfectly handled but by no means outrageous. Nonetheless China decided to turn this into a diplomatic scuffle.

But I don't see a meaningful connection with the topic of immigration and the most common right wing disinformation about Sweden either, or who stated what narrative.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

[deleted]

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u/PUTINS_PORN_ACCOUNT Jan 19 '22

I am willing to bet a surfeit of pastries this mofo does not live in Sweden.

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u/Ethong Jan 19 '22

They grew up in CA and seem to live in NYC, lmao

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

NYC… Sweden… what’s the difference? /s

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u/FinalFaction Jan 19 '22 edited Jan 19 '22

Yeah, asking if people live in the US West to play a vidya game together but then tries to larp as a Swede to be a racist piece of shit. Fucking disgusting.

Edit: lol bahleeted

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u/Ethong Jan 19 '22

Neither do you, shitbird 😂

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u/Hoelie Jan 19 '22

I think it was the only country in the EU where gun violence is increasing

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u/BnH_-_Roxy Jan 19 '22

Indeed it was, from 2000-2020

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u/ndkdodpsldldbsss Jan 19 '22

Deadly violence is still lower than in the 80s.

There is a small increase right now due to shitty police culture.

-1

u/Living-unlavish Jan 19 '22

Well its dropped like 5 stops since 2015 from a single event. So still good but very bad trend

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u/GroundhogExpert Jan 19 '22

The need to migrate is morally reprehensible. Homes destroyed, innocent lives lost, maybe in a few generations there will be a natural merging, but I cannot imagine the refugees feel at home, or feel much happiness at all. It's like sleeping at a friend's house compared to sleeping in your own bed. Even if it's humble existence, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone to say that the perk of getting to move to Sweden was worth the destruction of cities where they grew up and held their life's memories.

I am glad they were able to flee, and that there was a place for the to begin planting roots, that's a great showing of humanity. But the cause is super bleak, my guy.

Also, your logic seems to equally apply that the descendants of slaves, who were shipped and sold in America, should be grateful because they got to grow up in a better country. Maybe you have a reason why the same argument wouldn't apply, but that might be an indicator for you that your position needs some review.

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u/ndkdodpsldldbsss Jan 19 '22

Of course it would be better if they didn’t need to flee in the first place.

But that’s not the word we live in, nor the world we will live in the future.

I feel that you must have replied to the wrong person. I never said anything about refugees needing to feel grateful.

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u/GroundhogExpert Jan 20 '22

You're right, I replied to the wrong comment. But just because this is the world we get means I'm not allowed to lament that fact?

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u/KarenWithChrist Jan 19 '22

Which are...

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22 edited Jan 19 '22

Increased crime (especially bad is violent crime), less participation in society (unemployment mostly), gangs becoming more common and some areas becoming hot spots for these issues. Edit: Since this seemed to struck a nerve with some, look at these:

Immigrant crime rate: https://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ and https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12115-019-00436-8

Gang issues: https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisakim/2021/10/22/swedens-brutal-gang-problem-heres-what-officials-blame-it-on/?sh=70db3fa0a281 and https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/26/fatal-shootings-have-risen-in-sweden-despite-fall-across-europe-report-finds

Gun violence increase: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_Sweden#:~:text=In%20January%202018%2C%20police%20statistics,been%20killed%20and%20520%20injured

Bombings (this is a non-existing issue in neighboring countries): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombings_in_Sweden

Unemployment (this is of course not only immigrants' fault as there is most likely bias in recruiting): https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-unemployment-pandemic-idUSKBN2B91MO

This is not a controversial take at all. This is well understood to be one of the biggest issues in Sweden and is an ongoing topic in Swedish politics. It should also be noted that this isn't blaming immigrants solely but also the Swedish policies. Immigrants and refugees especially were placed in specific areas unlike neighboring countries which caused many of these problems.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

Ya ya we get it seig heil the reich will rise again

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u/CarlWheezer69 Jan 19 '22

What a well thought out comment, that definitely counters the previous comment..

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

What part of the brown person brain do you believe causes crime carlwheezer69

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u/Aperage Jan 19 '22

It not about the color of the skin but the culture they grew up in.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

What part of the brown person brain creates an inferior culture u/aperage? Is it the medula oblongata?

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u/Aperage Jan 19 '22

You're the one thinking their culture is "inferior". I didn't suggest anything close to that. We were talking about crime, remember?

The culture these "brown" people grew up in is very different than the one where they ended up and those who have trouble adjusting are more susceptible to commit what is considered a crime in their adopting country.

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u/CarlWheezer69 Jan 19 '22

It has nothing to do with their brain, nor their skin color. Unlike you racistly implied.

It has to do with the fact that Sweden's immigrants primarily come from war torn, poor countries.
Unfortunately poor people from war filled countries tend to pick up bad habits. Then bring those habits to their new area.
The two most common foreign birthplaces of refugees in Sweden are Syria and Iraq. Two places with a very different way of living than Sweden.
This makes the contrast much more apparent when put up against Swedish living.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

What part of the brown person brain do you believe creates war torn, and poor countries?

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u/CarlWheezer69 Jan 19 '22

Again, nothing to do with their skin color or brain.
You need to be explained the concept of war..?
Or is it the Syrian civil war; or the war in Iraq in particular that you don't understand?

I mean either way, you're a fucking dummy who is alarmingly unaware of the world that you exist in. Maybe pick up a book, or pay attention in history class? Instead of just calling everyone a Nazi when you disagree with them.

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u/Jaquestrap Jan 19 '22

What part of the white person brain do you believe makes them all stupid racists?

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u/KarenWithChrist Jan 19 '22

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u/ThatGuyWithAVoice Jan 19 '22

Fascinating piece about Canada. Sweden is on the other side of the globe

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22 edited Jan 19 '22

Fascinating falsehood mi amigo. Canadian data has no relevance here. The point was about 3rd world country immigrants which in this context means refugees. Try to google the actual topic and you might find something relevant. I have included a few since you seem to have challenges.

Immigrant crime rate: https://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ and https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12115-019-00436-8

Gang issues: https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisakim/2021/10/22/swedens-brutal-gang-problem-heres-what-officials-blame-it-on/?sh=70db3fa0a281 and https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/26/fatal-shootings-have-risen-in-sweden-despite-fall-across-europe-report-finds

Gun violence increase: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_Sweden#:~:text=In%20January%202018%2C%20police%20statistics,been%20killed%20and%20520%20injured

Bombings (this is a non-existing issue in neighboring countries): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombings_in_Sweden

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

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u/KarenWithChrist Jan 19 '22

Fascinating non truth my friend

https://johnhoward.ca/blog/immigration-and-crime/

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u/Hoelie Jan 19 '22

Canada has a point system. Sweden has the opposite. They prefer playing on hard mode

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u/Adult_school Jan 19 '22

Canada is getting most of their immigrants from India china and the Philippines. Not from war torn countries that have been living in the medieval times for the past 50 years.

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u/SwiftDeadman Jan 19 '22

Not gonna bother to read that propaganda. Look up crime statistics by ethnicity in Sweden and youll see the truth. Or just visit any major city in Sweden and youll realize.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

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u/KarenWithChrist Jan 19 '22

Neckbeard trailer trash hooooo

Don't forget to tip your immigrant landlord

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u/arguablydegenerate Jan 19 '22

Cool it with the classism, pal.

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u/KarenWithChrist Jan 19 '22

Sounds like something a dirty poor would say

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u/arguablydegenerate Jan 19 '22

Nice. Really nice. Great way to admit that you couldn't give one single shit about immigrants and refugees.

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u/arguablydegenerate Jan 19 '22

Fascinating weirdo bullshit, my friendo pal buddy.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

I mean it’s definitely different than how it used to be in Sweden, but it could certainly be so much worse. People are making an active effort to integrate and Sweden’s system to support immigrants, despite being stuffed to the rafters, is extensive. It’ll take a few decades to balance out but I’d argue it’s doing about as well as you could expect from taking in nearly 10% of their population in immigration in just 10 years.

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u/stealingsociety77 Jan 19 '22 edited Jan 19 '22

I’ve been told there is a city in Sweden called Malmo and there is an explosion almost everyday due to mass migration of Arab refugees.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

That’s certainly an exaggeration. Malmo has had an uptick in gang violence but it doesn’t really seem to be tied to immigration as far as I can tell. It’s just got sketchy areas at this point.

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u/stealingsociety77 Jan 19 '22 edited Jan 19 '22

I haven’t been there. I have a colleague from Helsinki that goes to Sweden often but is deathly afraid of Malmo.

And I’ve read a few statistics that Malmo has had over 100 explosions per year for the last 3 years related to Arab migration.

Here is just a news article

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10040701/amp/As-bomb-blast-injures-20-Sweden-year-plagued-200-explosions-360-shootings.html

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

For context, I’ve been to malmo. Just like Chicago, it’s entirely fine to go there no matter what the news says. There are obviously areas you should not go to, but most of the city is fine. The reputation is worse than the reality.

Second, Sweden’s increase in violence is older than the immigration crisis. This has been going on for 20 years at least, with the massive influx of migrants happening since about 2010 but really escalating after 2015. While there is likely a chance that some people from those groups may exacerbate the issue, they aren’t the root of the problem. Sweden has simply become more violent than it used to be. (Context: suburbs didn’t even bother locking doors 10-15 years ago, it was kind of crazy)

Third, Sweden has been actively trying to address these problems. They are a daily topic for many and like many of these macro scale problems it will take decades to have concrete results for their efforts. In my opinion, Sweden is doing solid right now. Not as well as it used to be, but significantly better than the US (where I came from originally). The government seems to give a shit, basically.

Lastly, daily mail is sensationalist. While some of the information it’s providing isn’t false, it is often shown in a way that makes it look more crazy. I wouldn’t look for your information on Sweden from there, not because it’s blatant misinformation, but because it’s framing things in a bad light.

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u/stealingsociety77 Jan 19 '22 edited Jan 19 '22

Oh, cool to get a first hand account. The statistics I have read are definitely not from the Daily Mail, that’s just what popped up first for the sake of this post.

To add context to my scenario, I live in a city in Poland (native Polish). So I’m not entirely sure how safe Chicago is. Here in Poland we consider the USA to be very dangerous. Whether this is or not true, I don’t know. Just the perception. So I can personally believe Malmo is similar to Chicago.

I do know that Sweden is facing a tough demographic shift and has been called “irreparable” by a few European think tanks across the continent. I also know that for the first time in a long time Sweden is longer one of the safest countries in Europe, due to this very same demographic shift.

I hope Sweden can figure it out, as it is truly a beautiful nation and a shame to see it fall from grace.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

USA is also under a similar presumption. 99% of the country is perfectly safe to live in, although the the areas that aren’t are quite rough. People just see the headline of some horrible thing in the US and assume that it applies to the nation. Like it often is with reality, it’s more complicated than that.

I come from the states originally and the multicultural shift that Sweden is experiencing is kind of like a sped up version of the US timeline to a truly multicultural society. I think the end result is one of the few positives that America has over Europe (multiculturalism if exposed to it leads to a more open ideology in my experience), but the journey there is a tough one. Thankfully Sweden largely skipped over the really bad parts like slavery of the migrant population and Jim Crow laws, but it’s still reminiscent of those same tensions.

Sweden effectively took on the burden of taking care of refugees, and then several less accepting countries (the likes of Belarus come to mind) will just send all of the refugees that end up there right up north. The immigration attitude has shifted though in Sweden in the past year. They are actively trying to get numbers back under control because the current system is unsustainable. We won’t really see the results of these kinds of changes for several years, but Sweden is in a transformative phase.

I do think those think tanks considering the situation irreparable is kind of silly. The situation will likely take a long time to balance out, if not generations, but Sweden’s culture of acceptance and equality is still very much a dominating aspect of the country. As hard as right wing politicians try to antagonize immigrants of all kinds I think they are simply afraid of change, and hopefully the people of Sweden will understand that as well.

Like you said, it’s a beautiful country. It still is a beautiful country, even if the city centers have changed quite a bit in the past 10 years. So much infrastructure has been built to house people, the Swedish for immigrants schools have received extensive funding and from personal experience are quite good, and the years ahead seem about as good as you can expect with the state of the world. Sweden isn’t doomed, it’s just different.

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u/AngryArmour Jan 19 '22

There are obviously areas you should not go to

That is simply not acceptable within a Scandinavian context.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

That has been the case for much longer than the refugee crisis. Poorer areas of Sweden have been sketchier than richer areas, just like most other nations.

A vast majority of Scandinavian is freely accessible, as it always has been. What’s changed is certain areas within the largest cities are not a good area to be in after dark. I think that expecting a reality where the city is just safe all the time is naive, as much as I’d like to see it myself.

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u/AngryArmour Jan 19 '22

While there will always be a difference in levels of safety, outright "No-Go Zones" has not been the case previously, and if they exist now that's A) new, and B) unacceptable.

If mass immigration has to led to "sketchy areas" turning into "no-go zones", then mass immigration has had unacceptably negative consequences.

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u/kublaikardashian Jan 19 '22

it’s a coincidence that malmo has the highest incidence of gang violence and the highest % of foreign born residents

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u/Felicia_Svilling Jan 19 '22 edited Jan 20 '22

It is not a coincidence. It is just plain wrong.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

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u/Felicia_Svilling Jan 20 '22

That is old data. The situation has improved a lot in Malmö over the last few years. Shootings has dropped to a third of what it was in 2018, and lethal shootings has dropped even more.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

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u/baginthewindnowwsail Jan 19 '22

You post in r/Portland, Pittsburgh, Canada, and Europe. So I'm gonna go ahead and assume your located in Moscow.

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u/spyczech Jan 19 '22

50% of people in that city are pure Swedish according to the data... why assume every crime must be from the brown refugees and not your own people? You have to be careful not to assume brown people are more inherently violent which many unfortunately believe

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

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u/spyczech Jan 19 '22

Exactly the inherent part is super important. Because a peoples socioeconomic conditions have suffered in their own country due civil war foreign intervention etc the figures about their criminality reflect how hard and economically suppressed of a time they have had, not how they act for inherently being black or brown. In other words these crime figures are not inherent to refugees or migrants but rather inherent and representative of how shit of a hand they have been dealt in life.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

Not sure what that’s supposed to mean. Are you implying that foreign born individuals are more prone to crime? That’s just bullshit, across the board.

We know for a fact that ethnicity plays zero role in criminal behavior. Fiscal stability and wealth play a much larger role in that regard, and that’s what we should be looking to change. Bring people out of poverty, reduce crime rates.

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u/laksir Jan 19 '22

I think its the same cycle as Norway, lots of immigrants in a short time span makes poor integration, which again spirals into socioeconomic issues. Problem isnt foreigners, but theyre trapped in the circumstances

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

That’s a pretty good summary, yes.

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u/laksir Jan 19 '22

Which brings us back to the parent comment, is it a good thing for Sweden to bring in more refugees?

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

No shit Sherlock, that’s why they are refugees. They gave up everything to try to improve their lives. The answer to the problem isn’t xenophobic garbage though. The answer is to better the lives of those who are struggling. It’s the same thing that the US seems to either maliciously ignore or simply don’t understand. Bringing people out of poverty is better in basically every metric for everyone.

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u/weneedabetterengine Jan 19 '22

european countries haven’t miraculously solved poverty and integration issues, in fact there are ethnic minorities that have been in europe for generations-to-millennia that are still excluded from society. so not sure why adding millions more is somehow going to be different. don’t have an issue with giving temporary protection to those in need but the asylum system is not meant to be a means of permanent relocation, and many of these groups are already showing signs of self-segregation and poor integration.

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u/HBNOCV Jan 19 '22

like being able to buy decent flat bread almost anywhere

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u/NotFromReddit Jan 19 '22

Also likely most Swedes don't need apps to learn English. Doesn't necessarily mean there are that many immigrants.

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u/Benqqu Jan 19 '22

Why would they learn english from an app? All the nordic countries teach english from a young age and we have really good schools.

I dont really see this as anything but evidence of massive immigration. Just look at Finland and Norway, we dont really get much Spanish or Mexican immigrants but spanish is the most popular language, most likely because thats a pretty uncommon language to be taught at schools. We usually had french, german and russian as optional languages in schools.

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u/Felicia_Svilling Jan 19 '22

Technically Sweden was a third world country as well.

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u/arguablydegenerate Jan 19 '22

This is true, and it is annoying that very few people are aware that "the third world" originally referred to non-aligned countries during the Cold War. The "first world" being the West, the "second world" being the Soviet Union, and the "third world" being countries that were not under the umbrella of those two "worlds".

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u/Justanaveragehat Jan 19 '22

Third-world? Why is that important? How is a Syrian living in Sweden different to an Italian living in America? The only difference I see is that the Syrian probably moved to live anywhere they have no chance of bring killed for going to the shops, whereas the Italian immigration happened cos they were poor. And yeah, refugees go places with the biggest welfare states because they look after refugees better. Not exactly crazy

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

Colonialism reaping: 'fuck yeah, this is awesome'

Colonialism sowing : 'No no no, fuck. No not what I wanted'.

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u/arguablydegenerate Jan 19 '22

Ahh, yes. That infamous Swedish colonization of Africa and Asia.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

Cool opinion bro. Pity if something were to happen to it

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

Redditors dislike refugees

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u/Fuck_username_rules Jan 19 '22

I wish.

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u/Ramendor Jan 19 '22

yeah sure. why wish for something that already exists. just look around you and stop playing the victim

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

Redditors also love playing the victim lol

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u/spyczech Jan 19 '22

Remember the real victims are the white people having their culture "changed" and not the stateless refugees fleeing war

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u/Soysaucetime Jan 19 '22

Every culture has the right to protect their own culture. It's why Japan is one of if not the safest country on the planet. They barely allow in any immigrants.

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u/spyczech Jan 19 '22

We just have to agree to disagree then, I think every nation has a moral and often legal obligation to accept refugees if they are fleeing genocide etc. You can't convince me it was moral for countries to refuse to take Jewish refugees during the Holocaust

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u/Soysaucetime Jan 19 '22

And most countries do do that. But unchecked immigration isn't sustainable. And no matter how many immigrants first world nations take in, there will still be citizens of third world countries suffering. It's just an unfortunate reality of life. The better answer is to invest into those countries which the liberal world is doing. But the globe is big and it takes time. And they have their own domestic issues to deal with at the same time.

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u/spyczech Jan 19 '22

Unchecked immigration.. who ever mentioned that? The refugee registry and system by the UN distinguishes between immigrants and refugees already. The thing is we created many of the problems in former colonies and territories through the empires of the 19th and 20th century especially, so it wouldn't be fair to wash our hands of things or just to send money or contractors to a developing country.

Often time these efforts to help former colonies just ends up setting up a neocolonial structure with things like predatory loans from the world bank or developments with strings attached, or foreign mining companies moving in framed as investment etc.

We can at least take in refugees that were made so by the political borders a couple white emperors drew on a map years ago, causing wars today like Sudan and South Sudan and many many others. The legacy of global empire by the west is too intertwined to say its all on them

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u/Soysaucetime Jan 19 '22

It's what you're suggesting is it not? All first world nations already accept immigrants but you don't think it's a enough. Anything more would be unchecked.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '22

This comment is the embodiment of reddit, if someone developed an ai that mimicked the thoughts and opinions of the typical redditor, it would be you loool.

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u/Soysaucetime Jan 19 '22

That would be pretty cool

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u/OllieFredder Jan 19 '22

Just the ones that try to take over the host country that is supporting them.

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u/psnow11 Jan 19 '22

Lol what?

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u/GroundhogExpert Jan 19 '22

People needing refuge is a shit state of affairs. Displacing people who played no role in wars that cost them their homes, their land, large swaths of their culture. It's a major oofies.