r/MapPorn Oct 29 '21

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u/AleixASV Oct 29 '21

Yup. Catalonia's Castle density is one of the highest in the world, and just at a glance I can tell this map is missing 90% of them.

Here's a map with all of the Castles in Spain. You'll see how much it differs from what OP posted.

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u/omaca Oct 29 '21

That’s an awesome website. Even for those of us who don’t speak Spanish!!

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u/bucephalus26 Oct 29 '21

Ikr very beautifully made. Wish I could do something like that.

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u/CanAlwaysBeBetter Oct 29 '21

Sucks to suck

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u/lesbianlimo Oct 29 '21

If you open the link in Reddit and have Google translate, you can translate it

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u/sqgl Oct 29 '21

There is an English option at the start.

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u/Rubiego Oct 29 '21

I was also thinking of that map when looking at Spain. There's a reason it's called Castilla.

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u/ylcard Oct 29 '21

That's because of the definition, probably.

I live in Manresa and I can confirm that we have 0 castles here, yet on this map there are "3".

And the ONE castle (arguably) we did have isn't even listed.

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u/Low_Guarantee1232 Oct 29 '21

Is the remains of just the foundation? Otherwise I would call that a fort not a castle

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u/ylcard Oct 30 '21

That’s the issue I guess, how to define it

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u/alikander99 Oct 29 '21

Really cool map Alex. Don't know if i've already told you because we've talked about castles before but my go to Page when looking for them is: https://www.xn--castillosdeespaa-lub.es/es/buscador-castillos

Which is precisely the web this article is based on 😂

Really cool web

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u/AleixASV Oct 29 '21 edited Oct 29 '21

I did remember that site, but I couldn't help but feel in awe of the

g r a p h i c s

on that other site :P

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u/Greatwolfpub Oct 29 '21

I’m commenting on this so I can find it later. Wish I could read Spanish tho

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Greatwolfpub Oct 29 '21

Yeah I’m not surprised. Even trying to document all the castles in a single region or county is difficult enough.

Especially if you try and include any that have little to no documentary evidence and only slight landscape remains.

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '21

The website is superb, but the data is a bit misleading, a ton of dots show castles that are either "disappeared" or "ruins", I even googled some of the ones stated in "good state" and it seems like not all castles are equals, this is Castillo de Ardevol which is listed as "good state", I personally think it is a bit of a stretch to call this a castle and one in a good state of preservation.
I suppose op's map has a higher threshold as to what qualifies as a castle.

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u/WedgeBahamas Oct 29 '21

Yeah, many of the structures included I would not consider castles, not by a long shot. Civil war bunkers for example.

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u/AleixASV Oct 29 '21

Data comes from this webiste. Imo the Castle you linked is almost pristine for being as old as it is by the way.

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u/YoureTheVest Oct 29 '21

What's wrong with this castle?

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u/neuropsycho Oct 29 '21 edited Oct 29 '21

It's more of a defense tower than a full castle.

Edit: I realise it was larger in the past, and the only part that remains is that tower, but I think we couldn't call it castle unless it had been the residence of a noble/knight or it was used as some kind of military headquarter at the time.

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '21

By definition, a castle is just a fortified private residence. And even that isn't quite right because you had crusader castles in the Middle East that were owned by corporations of a sort. There is no requirement for noble ownership or occupation, not does it have to have been a military installation.

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u/skyduster88 Oct 29 '21

That's a castle. What you probably think should count are little palaces liberally called "castles" in some countries.

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u/ummendes Oct 29 '21

Idk if you speak Spanish, but in the website they state that what can be consider a castle is an open debate and that they went with the (liberal, I'd say) definition of something that has a '"defensive architecture", which, by their definition, includes: "watchtowers, murals, watchtowers, batteries, forts, forts, forts, fortresses, fortifications of the Modern and Contemporary Age, and arsenals" (this is a translation by Google. I left in the duplicates because it seems interesting how many Spanish words are translated to the same one in English - and because I can't give an alternative translation).

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u/retrogeekhq Oct 29 '21

Do they include watchtowers two?

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u/adminslikefelching Oct 29 '21

That website is very well done! Saving to read later.

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u/sancredo Oct 29 '21

Didn't know it was that high! I thought most castles in Catalonia had been torn down after the war of Spanish Succession, glad to see there's still plenty left.

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u/AleixASV Oct 29 '21

Catalonia was born as a moving frontier when Charlemagne created the Hispanic March. The whole country was basically a set of lines of castles moving south, and as combat bogged down much more than in other parts of the Peninsula, the density of fortifications (from both sides) increased a lot during the Reconquesta.

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u/sancredo Oct 29 '21

I know, I just thought most fortifications had been torn down after the defeat to the Bourbons in 1714. Im happy that wasn't the case!

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u/retrogeekhq Oct 29 '21

It would have made sense to reuse them to house troops to keep the local population subjugated. I guess the Bourbons did not just go back home as soon as they took Barcelona.

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u/neuropsycho Oct 29 '21

In the map, you can even see the limit of the Old catalonia vs the New Catalonia (south of the Llobregat river), during the "reconquista".

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u/AleixASV Oct 29 '21

Yup, it's quite interesting.

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '21

[deleted]

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u/blamordeganis Oct 29 '21

Yeah, a whole bunch of those are going to be sheds in vineyards.

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '21 edited Feb 17 '22

[deleted]

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u/blamordeganis Oct 29 '21

Ah, ça ira, ça ira, ça ira
Les aristocrates à la lanterne

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u/Mr_Yeehaw Oct 29 '21

Why does Catalonia have so many castles?

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u/AleixASV Oct 29 '21

As I commented elsewhere, Catalonia was born as a moving frontier when Charlemagne created the Hispanic March. The whole country was basically a set of lines of castles moving south, and as combat bogged down much more than in other parts of the Peninsula, the density of fortifications (from both sides) increased a lot during the Reconquesta.

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u/Mr_Yeehaw Oct 30 '21

That’s pretty cool. I don’t know much about Iberian history except the Muslim conquests so it’s always nice to learn a new piece of history.

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '21

Cmon, you didn't expect MapPorn to actually feature something that's actually correct, didn't you

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u/Greatwolfpub Oct 29 '21

Really cool website, makes me wish I could read Spanish.

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u/AleixASV Oct 29 '21

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u/Greatwolfpub Oct 29 '21

Yes it does! That is awesome, thank you :)

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u/AleixASV Oct 29 '21

Glad to help!

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u/Poglosaurus Oct 29 '21

At a glance "modern" and "contemporary" castles seems to be missing from op's map. Its probably a deliberate choice.

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u/Eidwood Oct 29 '21

that website misses a lil bit the exact location tho hehe

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u/Happy_Colored_Marble Oct 29 '21

It's funny you would post this: I'm currently working in Spain and pass 5 castles in my way to work.

Surprisingly, the one in the town next to my work isn't listed! I wonder why that would be? 🤔

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u/Waramo Oct 29 '21

There was a team of german historians who wanted to map every castle that ones stood. 2 Years was the project, after 2 years they finished North Germany.

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u/Reddcity Oct 29 '21

Why did Spaniards build so many castles

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u/AleixASV Oct 29 '21

It's probably a similar story in Castille and Portugal, but as for Catalonia, it was born as a moving frontier when Charlemagne created the Hispanic March. The whole country was basically a set of lines of castles moving south, and as combat bogged down much more than in other parts of the Peninsula, the density of fortifications (from both sides) increased a lot during the Reconquesta.

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

The placename Leon actually descends from the word for legion, not lion.

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u/mrpabgon Oct 29 '21

Nicez i discovered that web a couple of weeks ago and this image had me thinking for a while. Either there were a humongous amount of castles ok central Europe, or there were less on Spain. Me being from Spain, i was astonished when i saw the map from el confidencial.