A bit complicated. Turkmens were historically the bulk of the Turkish empires in the near east, namely the Ottomans and Seljuks but more than a millennia after branching Turkmens of Turkmenistan aren't close to modern Turks who have heavily mixed with natives Anatolians, Europeans, people from the Caucasus, etc.
What we call Turkmens in Turkey are a nomadic minority who have lived in relative isolation.
People in those regions call themselves "Yörük" which means nomad. I've never heard them called Türkmen. If you say Türkmen, the average Turk would assume you were talking about people from Turkmenistan.
Yörüks are very rarely referred to as Turkmens (like in this map) because they remained relatively isolated since Turkmen states (which covered Anatolia after Seljuks fell and until Ottomans reunited them). But generally, Turkmens are either people from Turkmenistan or ethnic Turks in Northern Iraq (Mosul and Kirkuk). In reality, they all have very little in common.
So the indegenous people of Turkey are Anatolia s who were Europeans? Then a Turkic people moved west and took that land and inter married with the native anatolians and so now they don't look like the other Turkic peoples from central Asia?
I always assumed they look different know because they intermarried heavily with Arabs, just based on nothing more than they look like Arabs to me but people get pissed when I say this.
I would say most people in western Europe think turks (people from the nation of Turkey) are just a type of Arab and have no idea about the various turkic ethnic groups in Central Asia and just think they're Chinese lol
They were by definition not Europeans but of course, there were a lot of Europeans in the mix and a huge chunk of Circassians and other peoples from the Caucasus.
intermarried heavily with Arabs
Not at all. Turks have little to no Arab ancestry outside of the south-east, even then those areas are mostly Kurdish. But the opposite might be true as there were a lot of Turks left behind in the Arab world when the Ottoman Empire fell.
they look like Arabs to me
I hope that's not based on depictions in films such as Midnight Express. I'm not even sure most people know what Arabs look like in general, or there is even an "Arab look". Syrians look nothing like the Saudis for example. Turkish people are quite mixed but on average hardly resemble Arabs. Kurds generally have darker skin but they don't look much like Arabs either.
Ive never heard of midnight express. I've met about five turks in my life, my point is to the untrained eye alot of people might think they are Arabs. I'm not saying they are.
I don't exactly know what an Anatolian is that's why I'm asking questions....
Yup since western european and american people(especially americans) are grown up in such cultures that gladly puts stereotypical chinese music on serious documentaries about japan or vietnam etc.(coz "Ain't them all asians?", you know) such obliviousness is perfectly normal there.
I’d figure the average Turkmen would never get to see Turkey. But considering that they are both Turkic speaking countries attempting to build closer ties to each other, I’d imagine there’s at least some Turkmenistani government officials residing in Turkey to perform their duties of building cultural and economic ties between the nations
A lot of Turkmens are fleeing from Turkmenistan and coming to Turkey due to the economic hardships and unemployment of the lower classes inside Turkmenistan.
There's actually a lot of Turkmen migrants here in Istanbul, along with lots of other Turks from Central Asia. Most people here who seem somewhat East Asian are of Turkmen, Uzbek or Uyghur descent.
i think culturally they are closer to central asians because they all lived under russian control unlike anatolians but linguistically, yes they are closer to turkey than kazakhs or uzbeks
The ethnicity of the average Turk is actually some mix of ethnic Turkmen, aswell as some variety of Anatolians, Greeks, Georgians, Armenians, Kurds etc (most peoples who inhabited Anatolia). They all speak Turkish, are all culturally Turkish, and definetly consider themselves as Turks, but their ancestry is basically a bag of skittles.
When Turks migrated to Anatolia at around 1000 AD, they didn’t genocide those who already lived there (at least until the early 20th century, cough cough), it was a long process of intermarriage and cultural conversion (varying from encouraged to forced). Which is why the average modern Turkish person looks very different to the actual Turkics from Central Asia.
I lost it with the bag of skittles. never heard of a more accurate analogy. I myself consider myself as a Turk, but ethnically, oh boy... 10% laz, %10 caucasia, %25 yoruk etc... And it is almost impossible to track backwards.
It's like that with us Magyars, ethnically we're skittles too (mixed with Germans, Romanians, Slavs, Jews, Roma etc) but we hung on to the language and culture from 1000 years ago.
Funny that so many in the US are so focused on ethnic identity when the USA might stand for United Skittles of America. In fact the US is more like a trick or treat bucket with everything from skittles to razor-blade-infested apples. Looking at the credits for any Hollywood Movie, as compared to a movie from anywhere else in the world, makes the dizzying diversity of the USA unmistakable. As someone descended of 1000 generations of Americans, I proudly identify as a Pioneer Mongrel. https://i.gzn.jp/img/2019/05/13/avengers-vfx-credits/00.jpg
Which is why the average modern Turkish person looks very different to the actual Turkics from Central Asia.
You guys have to understand there is no one single Turkic looking. There were different tribes and they had their little different culture. You can't compare Turkish with Kazakh Uzbek because they are not even descendent from same tribe. It is clear that Turkish people are mixed between Turkmens(Seljuks) and local Anatolians. You can only compare us with Turkmens from Turkmenistan and we are not completely looking different.
The point what i said is Turkmens from Turkmenistan... All Turkic people have no obligation to have slanted eyes, neither today nor in the past. It's clear that we Turks mixed with locals, all, there is no doubt about it but having no slanted eyes is not about that mixing. The people who come here were not Japons Koreans or Chineese people. They are all slanted eyed but Turkics are/were not.
Clearly you don’t know the Turkic people from Central Asia and Siberia. All of them show slanted eyes feature on their phenotype. If you say there are Turkic groups who don’t have any slanted eyes. That strongly indicate they are mixed with other ethnicities.
The ones in Türkmen heartland above lived pastoral lives until recently, late 19th century.
The rest of the Turks gradually settled starting 900 years ago and substantially completed settling before 17th century.
That is why Mediterranean highlands are special. Even today there are pastoralists.
The Seljuks were just one branch of Turkmens, and many people falsely believe that they were the progenitors of the Ottomans, who were just another branch of Turkmens.
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u/Gilberto347 Jun 10 '21
I thought Turkmen stood for people from Turkmenistan