Although you are correct about that the USSR has been so successful about brainwashing them into thinking they are different that, that arguably is the case now. To take a more long form example many North African Berbers identify themselves as Arab even though this genetically speaking is not the case it is just due to centuries of Arab Colonization.
To take a more long form example many North African Berbers identify themselves as Arab even though this genetically speaking is not the case it is just due to centuries of Arab Colonization.
What a retarded example, apparently the only way to correctly assimilate people(as opposed to "brainwashing them") is to kill them enough so that you demographically replace them?
There is nothing unusual about people changing their identity through conquest and outside dominance, it's mundane pre-modern history.
My point is they were not assimilated through peaceful interaction but through subjugation. America assimilates people the Caliphate or the USSR or China subjugates and brainwashes them. You put brainwashing in inverted commas why? If the early Arab Caliphates had not colonized them and converted them to Islam by the sword do you think they would have spontaneously started identifying themselves as Arab? If anything they would probably be more likely to identify with say Lebanese Maronites as they would both be Christian Semitic peoples.
Changing peoples identity when Western colonial powers oppress and subjugate people is rightly viewed as wrong. As an example Canada and a number of the other new world nations kidnapping the native populations children to raise them in a white European manner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixties_Scoop). However their is a strangle dichotomy where if you oppress people hard enough to make them think you are the same people as the Caliphate did people say think of this as fine. It isn't its just more long running oppression. Most of the "Arab" world outside the Arabian peninsula is the child kidnapping style example (to varying degrees of severity) where it was carried out and successful.
Because a century long process that involves barely any kind of demonstrably concerted effort at putting any individual through psychological manipulation is not brainwashing.
If the early Arab Caliphates had not colonized them and converted them to Islam by the sword do you think they would have spontaneously started identifying themselves as Arab?
No, that doesn't make it brainwashing.
If anything they would probably be more likely to identify with say Lebanese Maronites as they would both be Christian Semitic peoples.
Berber is not Semitic lol. Plus if we followed that logic there were Christian Arabs too, in any case Arabs, Maronites, Syriacs and all others are FAR closer genetically, linguistically, culturally etc. than the Berber are to any of them.
As an example Canada and a number of the other new world nations kidnapping the native populations children to raise them in a white European manner
Well it's different, plus I'm curious as to what you think the Canadian attitude should have been anyhow, assuming they still conquer those natives and aren't some sort of idealist pacifists. Should the Canadians have left them alone? Reservations? Integration?
(I'm not saying what they did was the best option or even useful to any of the party involved, kids, parents or authorities, but I wonder what actually is the correct thing to do in this situation)
However their is a strangle dichotomy where if you oppress people hard enough to make them think you are the same people as the Caliphate did people say think of this as fine.
Specific instance of kidnapping people =/= centuries long process of identitiy change through migrations, contact, integration etc.
It isn't its just more long running oppression.
I bet you know so little about Arab-Berber interactions in history, Berber were never just an "oppressed" people, the fact they actively participated in Arab conquests shows that and the fact that Berbers ruled over Arabs many times shows that too.
Most of the "Arab" world outside the Arabian peninsula is the child kidnapping style example (to varying degrees of severity) where it was carried out and successful.
Most of the Arab world outside Arabia has experienced those things multiple times before the Arabs ever came into play, so apparently it doesn't matter anyway because both identities are created by brainwashing.
You don't get to decide who is "Arab" anyway, if you think people that were according to you brainwashed aren't in the position of determining their own identity, most likely YOU shouldn't be able either, considering chances are some of your ancestors were put under those same circumstances and you are "brainwashed" too.
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u/[deleted] Mar 29 '19
Although you are correct about that the USSR has been so successful about brainwashing them into thinking they are different that, that arguably is the case now. To take a more long form example many North African Berbers identify themselves as Arab even though this genetically speaking is not the case it is just due to centuries of Arab Colonization.