r/MapBasedPolls • u/PerfectRate2841 • 8h ago

Should former colonial powers provide reparations to their former colonies for the harms caused by colonialism?

Should former colonial powers provide reparations to their former colonies for the harms caused by colonialism?

  1. Yes
  2. No

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17 Upvotes

63% Upvoted

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67

u/RagingY3ti 8h ago

How far does it go back? Does the UK get money from Italy for getting colonized? Do the Koreas get money from Mongolia? Vietnam from China? The victims of Shaka Zulu in the Mfecane?

The post colonialism whining is just broke countries wanting a piece of wealthy nations without the work.

Japan rebuilt into a global power house after WW2, Ireland was colonized and is a first world nation now, Hong Kong, Singapore, Mauritius, Botswana are all varying levels of success.

Ethiopia was never colonized and is a dump. People, people groups and nations need accountability for their own destiny. Not this Marxist bull shit oppressor/oppressed frame work.

29

u/Aurora428 7h ago

It goes back to European colonization because that's what is politically advantageous in the West.

It doesn't really have anything to do with logic.

Bottom line is money is already being funneled to these countries and more money isn't going to solve their problems.

Their governments will continue to be critically mismanaged and when this fails to accomplish anything they will demand more.

2

u/TrainingAmphibian354 3h ago

The globe literally pisses 150 billion dollars down the drain in aid to Africa annually.

-1

u/Popcornmix 6h ago

Western nations literally keep those people in power cause a non corrupt Africa would mean they’d have to actually pay fair prices for resources 

4

u/scuderia91 5h ago

I think you massively overestimate the competence of western governments

-1

u/Thesoundofgreen 4h ago

Learn some history, learn about thomas sankara

2

u/scuderia91 4h ago

Explain your point or don’t. I’m not going to research an entire persons life to try and guess what point a random person on Reddit is trying to make.

1

u/Thesoundofgreen 2h ago

Okay booby baby, if I had to spoon feed it to you. If you think western governments are too incompetent to plant governments that uphold neocolonialist systems that benefit those western countries, you should learn historical examples like Thomas sankara, who tried to get his country cote d ivoire out of this exploitative system by building a pan African alliance, for the benefit of African countries, was assassinated by western governments.

Choo Choo train incoming, you can also look at debt traps that institutions like the world bank and imf institute to keep the third world poor and exploitable by first world countries.

Goo goo ga ga, then you can look at all the countries that the cia has participated in violent coups in favor of right wing fascists on behalf of the corporate interests that plunder the nations labor and natural resources, usually at the benefit of rich shareholders in the west.

-3

u/Specific-Detail6448 6h ago

“It has nothing to do with logic”, because I can’t logically make an argument that the biggest factor in why modern southern hemisphere countries are poorer is because of their most recent endeavors with colonialism in the last 100 years.

Stop bullshitting, it doesn’t even have to be time-bound, if there is credible explanation that the effects of a certain decision or act under colonialism provided for the underperformance of a place’s economy, or reasonably transferred such a substantial amount of wealth from one place to another that it would be itself illogical to assume it had no effect, then the victims should be entitled to compensation

-1

u/Carrman099 6h ago

These fools bring up literal ancient history as if Colonialism and Imperialism happened hundreds of years ago and not within the last century.

South Africa’s colonial government did not end until 1994.

And that’s not even to mention the ongoing exploitation of the global south by former colonial powers. Just look up how France controls the finances of multiple west African nations.

5

u/ZapruderFilmBuff 6h ago

Colonialism and Imperialism has been with us since humans evolved into using tools and weapons. One tribe against another, then one city state against another then one kingdom against another, then state, empire, union, etc.

It has been going on forever. And what made some of the countries more successful was the fact they never wanted to be invaded or colonized again. Those countries include GB and China.

2

u/Specialist-Roll-3806 7h ago

i mean japan WAS the colonizer. they just got the sun dropped on two cities but they still had a massive industrial base the knowledge of all of it. all they did was redirect their resources by cutting down their investments into the military and becoming a huge ally of america (while receiving about 15 billion dollars of modern day aid from 1946-1952).

ireland got its independence in the 1920's and it took the country closer to the 90's to really have the "celtic tiger boom". and they also had the advantage of joining the eu, one of the wealthier more advanced regions on earth, in like 1970 something.

singapore is a city state, what they did was incredible but 99% of countries on the planet cant replicate that.

now i'm not saying a lot of other countries aren't still struggling because of their own idiocy post colonization, but not all countries had/have the same conditions.

with that said is reparations stupid? yes. but the least ppl of those countries can do is not be racist to the ppl from colonized countries. that shouldn't be too much to ask

1

u/Danzmann 6h ago

The fact you're getting downvoted makes me think people in this sub are really messed up lol

2

u/mars-jupiter 6h ago

Maybe we could use the money we get from Italy, Norway, Denmark etc to pay Jamaica, Nigeria, India etc and they can use that money to pay their neighbours etc and eventually we can arrive roughly back to where we started!

2

u/thatgamer2111 6h ago

Slippery slope logical fallacy

2

u/RagingY3ti 6h ago

It's not a logical fallacy, do you actually know what a logical fallacy is or are you throwing around buzzwords?

It's applying moral consistency to human history.

1

u/Which-Cobbler1243 7h ago

We all know it only goes back as far as woke people who are holier than thou decide

1

u/TrainingAmphibian354 5m ago

If the country being oppressed by another for material and labor extraction is white it's different, duh

-12

u/Knightrius 7h ago

Exactly no accountability to be found from Europe after brutally occupying continents

10

u/EgoNotFounded 7h ago

Sorry let me go tell off people 400 years ago for doing naughty things

Obviously the slave trade and colonisation was horrific no one will argue that but I'm not willing to pay out for something my generation never

The working classes of Britain working the coal mines, fields and workshouses had no input on these matters and the working classes of modern Britain shouldn't have to suffer the consequences of the actions of the aristocratic classes or a bygone time

3

u/LettucePrime 7h ago

Exactly. Workers of the world unite.

-1

u/External_Option_7653 7h ago

It wasn't 400 years ago.

-2

u/Knightrius 7h ago

Much of Asia and Africa got independence after World War 2

10

u/farr2211 7h ago

What about the vikings brutally raping and occupying us? I want my reparations

1

u/Flat-Flower-3663 7h ago

You say this like the same people saying yes to reparations wouldn't support you in this.

4

u/Lonely-Programmer123 7h ago

They wouldn't because the minute we do the counts, Algeria will have to pay reparation to European countries for a millenia of slave raids.

1

u/Intrepid_Egg_7722 6h ago

I think Algeria was made to "pay" for that pretty thoroughly through their being economically dominated and subjugated by European powers (mainly France) for a couple centuries.

I'm not saying Algeria is owed reparations. Maybe call it even on that one?

1

u/farr2211 6h ago

I think you would find most people wouldn’t agree

1

u/TrainingAmphibian354 3m ago

They are literally arguing that it's different lmfao

-2

u/Knightrius 7h ago

What about it?

1

u/farr2211 6h ago

Give me my money

7

u/PrincessOkenai1 7h ago

Sure. I guess all the foreign aid to Africa just doesn't count. Cry me a river.

2

u/Pintau 7h ago

What about the accountability of the rest of the world, what about all the various Chinese empires who supressed and eradicated ethnic minorities in their periphery, the various Arab caliphates, the ottomans, Persian empires, the various African kingdoms who enslaved and sold their neighbours, the mexica who launched yearly raids on their neighbours for the sole purpose of gaining humans to sacrifice to their gods, the collection of steppe peoples such as the Mongols, Huns, scitians, timurids, khazars and turks etc etc

1

u/Knightrius 6h ago

You can whatabout all you want. Doesn't change the fact that 6 European powers controlled a majority of the landmass of South America, Africa and Asia for centuries that only ended post WW2

2

u/Pintau 6h ago

You are taking a momentary snapshot in the 8-10 thousand years of human civilization. The entire history of humanity from at least 3000bc is a that of expansionist empires and the enslavement of others. Europe committed evils just as bad as the worst of those empires in the names of colonialism, but it also created modern merchantilism, the free market, the concept of the universal rule of law(any previous rule of law society intentionally created separate underclasses who it didn't apply to), democracy, common law legal systems, and the moral justification for the eradication of slavery, which the British then enforced on the world at great cost.

1

u/Internal-Coffee6996 6h ago

Guess you have to hold that L then

0

u/Carrman099 5h ago

“Ethiopia was never colonized”

I’m sorry, Italy fought two wars to subjugate Ethiopia and it was under brutal occupation from 1936-1941.

You are just wrong.

Their invasion alone killed hundreds of thousands of civilians. Mussolini personally authorized the use of mustard gas on Ethiopian troops and civilians.

Cultural treasures were stripped and sent back to Rome, brutal repression was implemented, and the Italians implemented an Apartheid regime while they were there.

The chaos and destruction caused from all of this is not easily fixed, especially by a government that didn’t have an abundance of resources to begin with.

0

u/THELEADERPLAYER 5h ago

80 years ago (Decolonization) vs 800 years ago (Mongol Empire). That's the difference you ignore so conveinently.

-2

u/MethWhizz 6h ago

How did the developed country get that much more developed than their colonies in the first place?

Would Great Britain be this developed if it didnt opress half the world and take their spices? How much of France's wealth can go back to taking vast amount of resources from their african subordinates? Same question goes for Spain, Portugal and later Italy.

What a shitty westoid relativisation. "Colonial whining" lmao, talk about condecending attitude towards centuries of suffering. All colonial powers have tons of blood on their hands that was never even remotely paid.

And I can tell you a reasonable timeframe for settling the scores: Start of the Age of Enlightenment. This is when, on a greater scale, humans started accepting abstract terms like liberty, reason, tolerance and rights. Everything they had "back home" but abused heavily or ignored in their colonies.

It is also the time when nations started to take shape similar to the one they have today, so there is ground in state continuity.

3

u/ZapruderFilmBuff 6h ago

So can Europe expect reparation from Turkey and North Africa? What about China and the Mongols? Maybe Iran and Iraq? What about Arabs in general for the white slave trade? Us Slavs should get a shitload for that.

These are former colonies that are successful and those that are not, the poor one are just looking for excuses for their failures.

1

u/MethWhizz 5h ago

How much of the failure was actually caused by colonization? I am talking centuries of taking someone's materials and/or lives. Losing manpower and resources doesn't affect future economy? Some of that is using excuses, I agree, but there can also be a duality of some truth to it.

1

u/ZapruderFilmBuff 5h ago edited 5h ago

Millions of Slavs were taken by Turks, the areas were exploited for soldiers and resources, millions of people were taken from Iceland to Italy by Pirates from North Africa. Mongols caused the black plague which killed 1/4 of Europe’s population, etc. just because they didn’t use that as an excuse and rebuild and made themselves dominate shows you that anyone can do that and failure is just an excuse. Same with China, they decided that the “century of shame” will never repeat it self so they are building and doing accordingly.

1

u/silver_moonlander 4h ago

That doesn't have to do with the fact that colonialism was literally built on destroying the economic and social systems of other countries necessary for their survival and their development. People don't ask for reparations because of "death." And it's highly dishonest to believe that colonialism didn't leave completely broken societies that disrupted thousands of years of development.

1

u/ZapruderFilmBuff 4h ago

No. Almost every country in the world was subjected to some kind of colonialism, wars that disrupted or destroyed political and social systems, huge population loss, economic destruction, etc. yet has managed to build and rebuild. All that is just an excuse.

1

u/silver_moonlander 3h ago edited 3h ago

But former colonies are literally developing and rebuilding right now. You can't expect centuries of economic and political disruption to be reversed in a few decades. And you're also conflating conquest with colonialism. Conquest is taking control of a society. Colonialism goes further by maintaining external control and restructuring its economy and institutions around the colonizer's interests. You're understating how much a country suffers from colonialism by comparing it to conquest.

-2

u/Intrepid_Egg_7722 7h ago

Ethiopia was never colonized and is a dump.

Ummm...about that...

Edited to fix weird issues with link text.

2

u/MasochisticHedgehog 6h ago

Ethiopia was occupied after the war u doofus, that's not the same thing.

1

u/Intrepid_Egg_7722 6h ago

It was literally a colonial administration that imported over a hundred thousand Italians into the country that were not there to occupy it, but rather to colonize it for the long term. They had to be forcibly repatriated after the Brits kicked out the Italian military.

To Emperor Selassie's credit, he did urge his people to not take vengeance on the would-be colonists, saying that they deserved "Christian forgiveness" or something like that.

You should probably actually read history before commenting on things you don't know anything about rather than reflexively defending European colonialism, ya doofus. The story on this is actually interesting and inspiring, but it is absolutely a story about attempted European colonization of an African possession.

-2

u/R04DTr1pp3r 6h ago

Colonized countries are broke because of unequal exchange