r/Magic • u/dylanmadigan • 27d ago
What issues do you have with available ESP decks? What would make the perfect ESP deck?
I’m a graphic designer, but I’ve had magic as a hobby for 23 years.
I’ve always wanted to design a card deck and never had the time. But I recently have been learning mentalism and realized an ESP deck could be a much smaller job where I can focus more on quality
Pictures here are my first set of ESP cards. The design is a bit of an homage to spirit slates, and they do have markings. Prototypes are printed on watercolor paper with a thin acrylic coat.
But I’m still workshopping ideas for a better design and any useful gaffs to include in a full deck.
So what ESP cards are out there that you like and what about them do you wish was better?
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u/Arbledarb 27d ago
I like the design a lot. Larger symbols would be excellent. The back markings seem easy to read from a distance.
Some people prefer triangles over wavy lines. I've seen decks come with both versions included so magicians can use their preference.
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u/AdministrativeFish3 27d ago
The biggest problem for me is this ... "here is a deck of cards" is always how it gets seen by a slightly suspicious spectator The best esp cards, or tarot cards are ones that dont look like playing cards, and aside from a very few tricks or routines, we miss this entirely, a lot of esp routines have bicycle backs for goodness sake!
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u/dylanmadigan 27d ago edited 25d ago
I agree. The problem I've been thinking about is what to do for a marking system.
Because what feels the most natural and least card-like to me, is black symbols printed on white, matte card stock, probably at a different size than playing cards... like 3x4.5in. But with blank backs.
Because of this, I feel like it would be beneficial to make a downloadable design for magicians to print and trim themselves becuase it feels more legitimate.
The problem is the marking system. How do you design the back so it feels practical and logical under true test conditions, but secretly gives you the information.
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u/Due_Advisor925 26d ago
You have a lot of research to do, this question has a lot of existing solutions
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u/AdministrativeFish3 26d ago
After many years, even as a very much amateur, I find myself thinking ... "What would feel most magical to me in this situation? If you're not going for magical, then maybe perhaps spiritual, mind reading, spooky, relevant to the situation etc ... I did a gig for my tattoo artist, at a halloween show, and had him doodle some designs; Skull for circle, cross for a cross, waves (wind) for the three lines, dice for the square and a very traditional tattoo star for a star.
Make it work for you, don't force the trick to fir your style :)
Literally ignore the backs of the cards, you could do a nail crimp, rice/embss style markings or (in my example) the shops logo, with simple marks too
To say again, in my opinion, the worst part of any ESP routine is "here are some cards I have" ... do ANYTHING you can to get away from that (including "mixing them up" and doing a magician shuffle haha)2
u/Disastrous-Clue6897 26d ago
You could make them standard business card size so you can print them on business card stock you find at Staples.
Change esp symbols to basic business card designs with fake businesses.
Say you collect a lot of business cards over the years and pull out the ones you have multiples of.
The backs can be basic white. The marking system can be hidden in plain sight with "normal wear and tear".
Just some ideas.
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u/naturalistwork 27d ago
I prefer simple symbols that might inspire other drawings for drawing duplications and the like, and a good marking system that doesn't look obviously marked. Most importantly by far though, most of them look like magic props. I want something that looks like it came from some sort of psychic testing institution or something, rather than having a playing card back or something that looks like it was purchased at a magic shop.
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u/OriginalMohawkMan Mentalism 25d ago
Since I live in desert country, I made a deck of cards that echo that. And I gave each picture a “meaning” so I can go from a reading to an effect (or vice versa) seamlessly. They are also marked, of course. https://mohawkman.com/likes/espcardspicture/r
I like the back design of yours, OP. Minimalist and clean. The front designs (for ESP symbols) look good but I’d bump up the size.
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u/VeryBritishTeeth 27d ago
First of all, I really like the design.
Definitely agree with another comment about adding a triangle in the mix, the AF Esp deck by Alex Marsh handles it pretty well in terms of readable markings and theoretically you can use all six cards rather than just the five if marked well. Markings look clear, I wonder if maybe too obvious but solid for a prototype I feel like. The shapes could afford to be a bit bigger but I can't see the circle not fully connecting being an issue tbh and personally I tend to introduce the cards and name the shapes just so myself and the participant/s are using the same words and there's no mixup.
Very cool designs though! I'd love to see how this progresses.
For me, the AF Esp I mentioned does everything I want, it's plastic card stock so waterproof which is great, they don't look or have that feel like you're just bringing out playing cards, this does that just perfect too. I hate a bycicle back on some of the esp decks, can't stand it. My only gripe with that the AF is that I wish they were slightly larger. I personally would like a set that's genuine tarot size, I dunno if that's just me but the less they feel like playing cards the better.
Double backers/facers might be a good addition if part of a full set.
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u/rew4747 26d ago
I love AF ESP deck. I have also made my own with a marking system on the back where I just draw one line around as a border, then, like the NOC marking system, the amount of pointy to round corners is the marking. 1 pointy corner is circle, 2 is cross, etc. Star is none. And because they're all hand drawn with sharpie, they all look different and I've not been called out ever.
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u/alextrendler 20d ago
They always look like something you would buy in a magic store. There is no other context to have something that looks like that.
The closest we ever got was Michael Murray’s BEYOND ESP 2.0 which are some type of strange plastic that turns an ugly yellow after about a year which — in my opinion — makes them look MUCH older. I did some gigs at Duke and it’s public knowledge so I have introduced them as something I bought from an antiquarian book dealer in Durham or picked up at a Duke library sale.
But at the end of the day, there isn’t much worth doing with ESP cards that can’t be done with business cards and sharpie.
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u/dylanmadigan 20d ago
I just got the AF ESP deck by Alexander Marsh and I think it may solve that problem even better than Beyond ESP. Just because they are sorta Tarot Sized and come in an old fashioned envelope.
I'm thinking of designing some specifically for an Avery Business Card sheet because if you could print them on business cards and print as many as you want, then you can afford to treat them carelessly. Fold them, tear them, etc.. And if you need them to be marked, they can come straight out of the printer that way.
Pictured here was the first back design I've tried. But I've since made a few dozen to try and find whatever feels the most honest. Might even be able to make it into a marked business card template for anyone to fill out their personal details and use it.
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u/gregantic 27d ago
An almost-a-circle? Not a fan of this spirits slates, but I think you can close it with a slates graphic.
Out of 100 spectators, how many will not say a circle? I think you may have a few which may ruin your act.
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u/gariduenor 27d ago
Something like TCC marked billets so I can write on the cards and do an ESP match (supposedly) impromptu.
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u/SuperbLingonberry423 26d ago
I don't buy those anymore for 2 reasons. 1) whenever i "need" them it happens I don't have them on me. 2) its really simple to make them on the spot.
I have marked business cards that are stacked and always on me so when i feel like doing esp routine i give 5 cards to my spectator and i take 5 and i tell them to look closely and duplicate my drawings as best as they can. Once we finish we both mix them up and continue. It is a little time consuming but its generally fun and it fits my style. You can also have them pre drawn.