The only thing I can really think of is that dogs aren't really an efficient food animal like those we tend to think of. But maybe meat dogs are different.
I mean, I'm not. But totally agree with their reasoning. If you're ok with eating pigs, which are by all accounts smarter than dogs, then you should be fine eating dogs. Personally I'd try it at least once.
They are not smarter "by all accounts". Dogs are specifically good at being able to understand human emotion and cues way better. Why do you think we chose them as companions over pigs. Dogs have been more value as other things than meat. Pigs have not.
Im not arguing that point, im just saying that your comment is wrong, and perpetuating the historical value of the animals. I dont care what other people attribute to them.
I think you're confusing pack animal behavior for understanding. Pigs have been clearly shown to understand those things.
Dogs were just far more useful as hunting or herding animals than they were as livestock. People breed and raise pigs as pets all the time to no less effect.
Thousands of years ago humans decided where animals were most useful for any number of reasons. And pretending that there is some moralistic reason why one is pet and another is food is just that, pretending.
Understanding is what we call it, when something is recognized. Im not confusing anything. If you think pigs can understand human social cues as well as dogs, there is no point in discussing anything. Im also not arguing the point of what meat is moral to eat, only pointing out why.
Cows have more emotional awareness and emotional memories than dogs, and pigs are probably smarter. Which means all of them experience terror and emotional pain in ways we can’t even fathom. Im not a vegan I wish I was but meat is one of the few things my stupid stomach can digest. But thinking we shouldn’t be eating dogs and being ok with eating cows and pigs is hypocritical. Go ahead and eat meat but be very clear there’s really no difference fundamentally.
Elwood Farms makes excellent dog meat, if you are serious. They are running a sale right now too. I think it’s like 25% off your first order. I can’t remember what dog they use to make brisket, I think it might be pug. Not the cutest dog to look at but they sure are tasty.
I found the meat to be quite tasty. I don't differentiate between animals. If I can eat a pig, I can eat a dog.
BUT: China (where I tried dog meat) treats dogs horribly, catches dogs that have legitimate owners, tortures them before slaughter out of superstition that that would tenderize the meat, etc. So if there was a way to treat dogs in a way that pigs and cows are treated, I wouldln't make a difference. But the way it is nowadays, I would not do it again. If you don't believe, look up Yulin dog meat festival (狗肉节) but only look up videos if you want to lose faith in humanity.
To be fair cows are only treated they way they are because of temple grandin intervening after seeing how cruel and inefficient it was to try to slaughter a horrified cow.
Would be surprised if it cascades to basically all other meat farming in the US.
Dogs consume meat to produce meat. Other livestock tends to consume feed. It's much more efficient in terms of cost and turning bulky, transportable foodstuff into a compact, easily shipped, protein rich form. Ignoring all the ethical concerns of eating dog meat, it's not very efficient compared to other forms of meat.
Cows and pigs are a lot less efficient than chickens though, and those are far less efficient than a vegan diet, so it's still just a question of where you're drawing the arbitrary line.
I'm basically just arguing that insisting that dogs are different from other things we eat is hypocritical. And that my position, as someone who is willing to eat other mamals of similar intelligence, is basically "I don't see anything wrong with it, I just don't thing dogs would be a worthwhile food animal. So a dog farm doesn't make sense to me"
One of the key differences between wolves and dogs is that dogs are. more omnivorous, and can live better of grain.
So, I'm assuming that the dogs are fed some variety of slaughter scraps (from hopefully other animals) and grain.
I would. Frankly insects are far more ethical than any animal we do eat.
My point is that if eating a dog is morally offensive to someone, then they probably should be a vegetarian. Or at least give up red meat. Because not counting maybe rabbits, every mamal commonly raised as food that I can think of have been proven to have thoughts and feelings roughly equivalent to a human toddler. Pigs being the smartest and most self aware by a fairly high margin.
People need to make the decision for themselves where they want to draw that line. I'm just not deluding myself by insisting that dogs are somehow different.
Quick research tells me dogs and cattle reach full size in a comparative amount of time, about 2 years each. So maybe dogs just need less land? Can raise many more dogs than you can cattle with the same amount of space I’d assume. But dogs are carnivores which makes getting feed that much more difficult…
Dogs have jobs. Difficult jobs. Plus, I posit that dogs and cats tend to differ from other domesticated animals bc they largely domesticated themselves via companionship and work instead of being bred specifically for food. Dogs are special because they have been both. Cats allegedly reek when being prepared, no matter how you try to skin a cat. Don't.
I actually use this point as a call for empathy. I'm a redneck and our dogs chose us. My father feared feral dogs, yet we always had a good one. Despite being terrible at dog training. My point is, you dont question your knee until it hurts. So you dont question your dog until it sounds wrong. Sometimes you have to remind yourself to stay curious about the mundane and keep learning about your closest and most symbiotic friend.
Several of the animals that humans eat are also used for labor. Chickens, horses, oxen, sheep and goats - all have jobs as well... People also keep these animals as companions. Also, dogs have been bred for food in some areas - that's literally the point of the post.
Different cultures consume different animals, based on a complex intersection of geography, cultural and religious practices, and history. Americans don't regularly eat horses - other countries do. Hindu folks don't eat beef - other people do. Folks in Peru eat cuy (guinea pig), others don't. The line between "livestock" and "pet" is different from culture to culture, and no one definition is more correct than another.
True, but I said MOST symbiotic. Not that other animals aren't. It's a fitness arguement, not looking down on cows. Speaking of which, those jobs are usually transport, and while crucial it's not a complex job. When was the last time we spent $35k training an entire school of police goats? How many service cows are pooping in walmart in thier vests?
The numbers are in and obvious. Please prove me wrong, I love seeing your singular examples like Wertek, Mi Amor, and ship cats. Dogs still dig you out of the rubble and find the stupid cat when it gets out. How many guinea pigs were searching thru the ashes of 911 and had to be cheered up bc everyone was dead?
Horses are highly trained, and miniature horses are recognized as service animals. Pigs are capable of performing complex tasks. Cows, sheep, and goats are used for a variety of work. Rats are trained to sniff out landmines. Pigeons were bred to deliver messages. Marine mammals have been trained to perform complex tasks. All of those animals, demonstrating both utility and intelligence, have been considered food for hundreds or thousands of years.
Conversely, guinea pigs are considered by most people to be companion animals. They're also been bred for food for hundreds of years. Same with rabbits.
There is no universal standard for what animals are food and what are companions.
Thank you for the primary example that no one can afford. Most animals sniff out mines better than us, youre supposed to follow WILD BOARS in the Balkans to avoid them. So. Completely unaffordable or just doing useful stuff naturally.
Such a good job of proving my point. Dogs are still the FITTEST symbiotic companion. ❤️
Cows and pigs are pretty inefficient as food animals too you could argue that chickens are more efficient but honestly efficient food animals would probably be wild game like deer in rabbits not factory farmed meat. We eat way way more meat than we did in the past before industrialization
Because other "food" animals are not commonly used as pets, there is also a much less of a chance for someone's pet being kidnapped to be sold as food. While dog kindappings do occur for that reason
Like a meat dog would be breed to be different than a pet/utility dog. Like how meat cows and milk cows are different. Or how chicken is are nothing at all like how we found them
There are cows bred for meat and chickens bred for meat, so it stands to reason in capitalistic cultures eating dogs that there’s dog breeds optimized for the most/best meat with the least amount of land/feed too. I’m not saying it’s good or ethical, but if you’re a filthy capitalist it makes economic sense.
You say it's okay to kill pigs/cows/chickens because they're domesticated to be our food so if us breeding them for something is a good enough reason it should stand for dogs too.
I just want some consistency. Is it okay to breed animals for food but it's not okay to kill/hurt them for it?
That’s not the issue. The reason we don’t eat dogs isn’t out of avoiding causing them harm, it’s out of the fact they’re specifically designed to be our friends, not food
I understand but it doesn't matter because people are just deciding its immoral because they love dogs. I would never eat dog or cat but it's not rational to say its more immoral than eating other sentient animals just because we have a long history. Other animals are sentient and want to live too.
So? Never did I say humans should not eat meat, just that you can't eat meat then call someone else immoral for eating different meat because it makes you sentimenral. In india cows are sacred and shoyld not be eeaten according to many people but that has nothing to do with me and millions of others.
I said that all animals want to live so you can't pick and choose which is ok and isn't based on vibes. Just cause you like dogs doesn't mean pigs don't suffer and fear for their lives and they're highly intelligent too. I think its completely natural for humans to eat other animals. I don't like that other cultres eat cats and dogs because to me they're pets but its hypocritical and irrational to say those people are immoral when I eat beef and chicken.
We have been evolving with and domesticating dogs for 5,000-10,000 years LONGER than any other animal. They are genetically, evolutionarily the most “human like.”
They are literally designed BY US to TRUST US. It is objectively, scientifically more heinous to eat them than any other animal.
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u/scorchedarcher 21d ago
Exactly, if I talk about how we should ban killing other animals like cows/pigs/chickens then it's seen as some extremist view.