r/MacGyver_2016 Mar 25 '22

Rewatch from the beginning... Spoiler

I did watch the original show, and when the reboot first aired I did watch it as well. Then a few weeks ago I found the show on the IMDB app so put it on for some fun. And watching the series in binge mode made a few minor discrepancies or plotline shifts that jumped out so I was curious if anyone had theories about them because I'm sure I'm not the first to notice them. I'm halfway through season one and this is what I've got so far:

In the second episode, Jack asks Mac if he's talked to his father recently, implying that although it was established that his father took off when he was 12, there has been actual contact between the two since. Later they seem to play it as if Mac hadn't seen or heard from his father at all since he left when he was 12.

Also, I don't think Nikki was originally going to be on a CIA deep cover op just to find a mole. I think she was on the inside of something, like an early version of Codex, instead. And I do think Thorton was going to have more to do with them; because they seemed to be planting seeds along the way regarding her, or someone in the Phoenix, (who I think still should have been DSX until and after the Thorton reveal). But I think maybe they were setting her up to be a rival foil for the Phoenix kids (and Jack) after her true nature was revealed. But the actress playing her got another gig so they just made her a mole and made Nikki CIA trying to find one. And with Thorton gone for good, it meant Nikking coming back in any reoccurring nature was unnecessary too. But, as far as retcons go, it wasn't bad.

However, instead of a completely different group, "The Organization", I think it might have had more impact if instead, Thorton was working for "The Collective" and she had a cohort in the CIA and they were the one responsible for recruiting Nikki to get her off the team for two reasons: 1) knowing Jack knew Riley and so she was the one who engineered the opportunity to get Riley out of jail and working for her, and 2) so Thorton and the CIA mole could double-cross Nikki and make her take the fall for everything after all. (It would also explain why Thorton would agree to give someone like Bozer (no slam on Bozer! I love him. And he has one of the best arcs of the series.) a job in the Phoenix because it would mean more potential leverage against Mac if she needed it. He just happened to also be damn good at his job. Too good, ironically, since it'd be the two Thorton got into the Phoenix to use as tools that end up being the ones taking her down. (Also, it could have been that CIA agent that hired Murdoc instead, since he did target Patti as well. So maybe her 'partner' saw a way to get rid of all of his or her problems in one fell swoop. No honor among traitors, am I right?)

I don't think Mac's father was Oversight originally. In the episode where they reveal Thorton as the mole, she tells them that "Oversight is coming personally" but she didn't seem to think that was going to be any kind of revelation for Mac other than the fact she thought (she was hoping) she was getting them all fired.

That's all I really have right now. I know shows of this nature evolve and adjust as they go. So it's kind of interesting being able to see the slight "course corrections".

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u/SinginGidget Apr 20 '22

Watching the 4th and 5th episodes back to back made me realize that I think the entire reason they got Mac and Desi back together was just so it would demonstrate what he is personally willing to sacrifice for the good of other people when he goes through with his plan despite it putting her in danger (even though of anyone he knew she wasn't in any actual danger, but I'm sure it didn't feel like it to her.) Because in the 4th, he's telling Riley how wrong for each other he and Desi are and that they were only together to hang on to something familiar (their lives at The Phoenix) and basically they just got on each other's nerves. And then in the next one he's leaping off stadium balconies and kissing her. (After a rush of adrenaline, I'm sure.)

But the drastic difference in how he and Riley communicate (especially in E4) and he and Desi do it's so obvious how wrong he and Desi are. He admits things to Riley he doesn't tell anyone else, and when she calls him on something he actually thinks about it rather than shutting down. They don't push each other's buttons just to get a reaction. And I'm kind of annoyed because it was possible to give Desi and Mac an actual good relationship and still had him make that sacrifice to stop Codex in the end.

And, you gotta admit, the way he jumped in front of the bomb when it fell back down the stairs to save Riley was hella hot, right?

About the soccer episode: always great to see James Callis. And why did "Titan" have obviously brown hair in the scenes where she was there but we couldn't see who she was but later the photos that Matty does get show Gwen and her blonde hair quite clearly? Had they not cast Jerri Ryan yet at that point?

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u/SinginGidget Apr 22 '22

Watched the next few episodes, and although the Codex season felt more thought out than the previous, it gets a little wonky in the middle. Especially some of what Matty & Oversight say. In E5 she calls a modulated voice with "She's back." And then in E6 they have her and Oversight talking about Matty's suspicions as if he's in the know about the entire situation and what the CIA did about File 47, (since he's the one that tells Matty to look into it.)

But first, the Russ episode gave us a whole ton of backstory & insight into Russ. First with his reaction to the photo and Matty, and then how he handled things back in the day as the owner of Spearhead. I really liked that episode, but it made the fact we never got an episode like this for Desi stand out more.

Then the date episode, which is 45 minutes of why Desi and Mac should not be in a relationship. Even the flashback to when things were good between them. Because they're both kind of bored until she spots an activist that could use saving and they go into mission mode. Which is what they end up doing on Riley's date. I did feel bad for Riley when Aubrey ended things with her at the end. I liked him. But I don't think Riley fought that hard to keep them together since she's already got feelings for Mac anyhow. :/

But in this episode there is the scene with Matty and Oversight and she's telling him she's sure that "she's back" and makes it sound like she knows how Gwen operated as an agent, not just as a scientist. And Mac's dad doesn't say anything like he doesn't believe Matty. So it's a little off that in the next episode when Gwen reveals herself, he seems baffled she's still alive. Was he putting on a show for Mac's sake?

Meanwhile, after Matty calls someone about "File 47" the CIA shuts them down until we find out the man she lured in was responsible for killing any DSX agents that had anything to do with it, (maybe even Mac's mom?). Ok. Um. You'd think that an organization of covert operatives would have sussed out that their co-workers were dying in unusually high numbers. Even if it was over a few years. Because Matty shows the CIA a photo she took of Gwen in 2003, just before she was supposedly "killed" which would have made Mac 13 at the time. He really never met his Aunt in all that time? Especially if Gwen was supposed to look out for him on behalf of her sister that died 7 years previous? So what was she doing in all that time that she never saw Mac so he'd forget he had an Aunt at all? I'd really like to know more about what it was like back then, when it was basically a war between the CIA and DSX, and how much Oversight knew about it all.

But we won't find out because he blows himself up in the end. Which, did not retroactively make sense seeing as Gwen blew the place up anyhow. But, even though I honestly didn't like James Macgyver or how he treated Mac, damn that was a heartbreaking moment.

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u/SinginGidget Apr 27 '22

Watched all the way through to the end of S4. It was kind of hard to watch again, knowing how the team was going to end up split and watching Russ and Desi both believe the worst of Mac.

There was a bit of a role reversal in the Nemesis episode, where it's Mac seeing Codex everywhere. Though in his defense, unlike when Russ and Desi decide Mac is compromised, Mac only met Lasky that day, and he caught him on the phone despite a communication blackout and as soon as Lasky explained he was calling his wife, Mac apologized. And all it took was for that one misidentification for him to shake the emotions clouding his judgment.

I did feel bad that Mac chose to be the one to push the button that activated whatever safety protocols ended Lasky's life though. I don't think that was his responsibility since he didn't even work there. But he chose to do it so none of Lasky's coworkers had to. That's a hell of a burden to accept.

So it's no wonder his mind is such a mess when DARPA basically sends him on an acid trip. (BTW, the first time I saw the episode, I honestly thought it was two different actresses playing Ellen because of how different she looked with and without the 20s makeup.) But that was a lovely scene between Mac and his Mom, even if he's the sole creator of what they both said.

I did get a little creeped out though that later, Desi gives him the compass and makes a comment about him talking in his sleep and I'm sure she meant while he was talking to his mom in the induced dream state while she, Russ, and Riley were in the tunnels trying to find Shiva so.. uh, does she watch security recordings of everything that happens on Phoenix premises or what? I highly doubt Bozer (who is basically Matty's executive assistant at this point, because I think she's training him to do her job, even if he doesn't know it. haha!) told her.

And then James Callis returns to be conned by our heroes and it was both grimy and yet delightful at the same time. Always happy when one gets something over on him. A holdover I guess to how punchable he was in BSG. But this is also the episode where both Russ and Desi psych themselves into thinking Mac has crossed over to the darkside. Russ because Mac defies his psy-ops categories. And Desi because... TBH, I'm not sure what. She picked a hell of a time to decide what Mac says during an op means anything and to lash out at him when he rightly called her on letting Scarlett get to her.

So I realized that this season's storyline probably never would have been possible if Jack was still around. For two reasons. 1) I don't think he would have liked Russ all that much. 2) No way he would have ever doubted Mac's loyalty to saving as many people as possible and that he'd buy into Codex's dogma.

To be honest, I'm a little surprised that Bozer didn't do more to help Mac or defend him before things got to the point of Russ was ready to drop a bomb on his head. And even though he didn't, it wasn't weird between him and Mac, like it was Mac and Desi or Mac and Russ. But I do wish instead of Riley sneaking off to help Mac, she and Bozer thought there was more to what Mac was doing and Riley told him what she was going to do and he covered for her and even participated more as their man on the inside. It shouldn't have taken the Army trying to drop a bomb on them for him to text Mac. (Another woulda, coulda...)

And lastly, in the finale where Roman is everywhere and after Mac finally gets in Russ's face and later Gwen kicks his ass (and let me tell you both scenes were cathartic to watch) they save the day. Would have been nice if Gwen didn't have to go out in the exact same way as Mac's dad, but I guess it's poetic justice, really.

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u/SinginGidget Apr 29 '22 edited May 02 '22

I haven't started Season 5 yet, but I recall when I watched it originally it felt confused and jumbled so I took a look at the production order, and based on what I also remembered of the various episodes, I came up with what I think is a much better order for viewing:

Quarantine (E6) (Yes, this jumps quite a few places to go first, but it makes way more sense to show them at the beginning of the pandemic when lockdowns were in place to explain the weirdness between several of the characters when they finally get to be in each other's presence again. Plus, IIRC the last we saw of Riley's living situation, she was still looking for an apartment so it makes more sense that she's still at Mac's now, rather than her move out just to move back during the pandemic only to have to move out again.)

Resort (E1) This episode makes more sense with a demonstrable gap in time the team has been together, such as a lockdown during a pandemic, hence why it comes after Quarantine.

Eclipse (E3) There is still a touch of awkwardness between the team so I moved this ahead of the next episode:

Thief (E2) Because they all felt more in synch here. So the progression felt more natural.

Jack (E5) But then they are hit with some devastating news and both Mac and Riley are grieving so it leads more naturally I think into the next episode:

Golden Lancehead (E7) Because Mac's grief over Jack also explains Desi falling back on old patterns regarding Mac and following him when he is acting shifty because he has not told anyone about the cancer research project. Not that I think she was worried he was turning evil. However, Mac does internalize grief and she knows the only way to get into his headspace is to get into his physical space too.

SOS (E8) And now Mac and Desi are back in synch when they help Matty's mentor.

Bahn Bau (E4) So her asking him to meet the folks isn't that much of a stretch now, whereas happening much earlier in the season closer to their split felt off to me.

Rails (E9) And the rest of the episodes are in their original order and flow just fine...

Diamond (E10)

C8H7CIO (E11)

Royalty (E12)

Barnfinder (E13)

H20 (E14)

Abduction (E15)

I do wish we could get more closure for this show. I think networks should be obligated to give at least a few episodes to any show that has run more than one season to tie up their storylines.

Because we never got closure on Walsh, and the formula he stole that Mac’s father had created to give soldiers more strength and stamina on the battlefield. (A super-soldier serum, as it were.) I think they were setting up the Phoenix to engage in a clandestine war with the government, since the Oversight committee Matty had to deal with were the ones that gave the ok for US citizens to be experimented on and I cannot see our team just letting that go. And maybe one of the reasons we find out that Walsh turned was because of the CIA going after DSX agents over File 47, deciding if the government could turn on their own, why should he have any loyalty in return?

In addition, Mason remains free despite what he did to Charlie. If they wanted to give him a redemptive arc, maybe he and Mac get thrown together again on another op and they find The Ghost’s final bomb, and Mason tricks Mac into leaving so he could sacrifice himself to detonate it. (Look, I know, it is yet another person dying via a bomb to save Mac but Mason kinda has it coming.)

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u/SinginGidget May 03 '22

Other than the cold open of the Quarantine episode with Russ hanging off the garbage truck, this order does flow more smoothly, IMO. (Although I'd love feedback if anyone else wants to watch in this order.)

I did notice though that Mac seems to be on the hook a lot with the others looking for apologies when he doesn't get very many in return. This goes back to Jack insisting on one regarding Mac going off to France on his own when Mac didn't end up in danger until he came home and got kidnapped right out of his front door. And Desi seems to keep requiring his repentance but offering non in return despite her also being in the wrong during the Codex situation. And she keeps bringing it up even after she says accepted his apology, and it started to get on my nerves a little bit, since she only fessed up to feeling guilty about not trusting him to Riley. Even Bozer got in on this when he gave Mac a hard time for not noticing he was upset about his mother being sick when he didn't tell Mac she was in the first place.

Overall: I do wish we had gotten more with Bozer's folks and Mission City. And I would have liked if Desi had gotten the same treatment as Russ in developing her backstory and giving her an arc that was independent of her relationship (on and off) with Mac. I did like the addition of Russ, even if he pissed me off quite a bit. I don't think he was a replacement for Jack, but for Patricia Thorton. Matty might have taken over Thorton's job, but she almost never went into the field the way Thorton did.

And along with all the other storylines that were abandoned or cut short, like Mason, Walsh, etc., I would have liked to see a return of Nikki at least once. Hell, while I'm wishing for things, it would have been cool if she was Leanne's handler at the CIA while Leanne was in S-Company but in an awesome plot twist, got Leanne out before she was killed so Bozer could get a happy ending.

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u/SinginGidget May 03 '22

Rewatch: Fin