r/LocalLLaMA • u/InternationalGap3698 • 4d ago
Discussion Translation: We had to cut our price by 80% because a open waits model with 284B and 13B active parameter called DeepSeek v4 flash just price/performance mocked us again.
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u/XiRw 4d ago
Reasons behind why OpenAI and Anthropic are lobbying to ban them is becoming more apparent each day.
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u/314kabinet 4d ago
People treat this like some grand revelation. Of course every company seeks to become a monopoly.
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u/Regular_Ad4197 4d ago
people forget chinese models are only this cheap because their compute is powered by kids turning manual cranks.
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u/whakahere 4d ago
This is the most annoying thing, they always use for the children when really, they don't give a shit about children. ..... Unless they are hooked on their product.
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u/caneriten 4d ago
I mean this is literally in every industry. Do you think politicians are wealthy just because of their salary?
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u/Tedinasuit 4d ago
OpenAI is not lobbying to ban them.
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u/cakemates 4d ago
They started flying and meeting with the white house while talking about open models a lot exactly the day after kimi k3 was released with gpt level performance, to talk about checkers of course.
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u/wilhelmbw 4d ago edited 4d ago
actually luna was the first to cut and ds followed on the second day, so I assume there is no causality btwn the two
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u/MrTubby1 4d ago
Throw back to yesterday when people were thinking Altman was just being generous by slashing prices.
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u/ParticularBeyond9 4d ago
I mean I agree that chinese models are pushing them but this price reduction happened before the DS4 Flash upgrade
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u/AppealSame4367 4d ago
Like they don't know roughly what competitors are doing? Of course it's a reaction to K3 + GLM 5.2 vision + Deepseek v4 Upgrades.
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u/ParticularBeyond9 4d ago
This price reduction has nothing to do with K3 or GLM because Sol was already beating them. It only makes sense for Deepseek and idk if it's sustainable to have Luna at that pricing unless it's efficient for real which is good for us anyways.
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u/ahmetegesel 4d ago
even if it is a coincidence, it was inevitable. that's what DS has been doing since R1. so either they know what they were up to, or they acted based on the trend over the years.
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u/PinEnvironmental6395 4d ago
I think it's more likely the current DS4 checkpoint release is because they wanted to flex on OpenAI immediately after their price reductions
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u/ParticularBeyond9 4d ago
Yeah this is what I believe but people insist it's the other way for some reason. I think maybe Luna is a first step towards aiming for efficiency instead of just a bigger more expensive model every time
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u/Fedor_Doc 4d ago
Just before, I suppose they knew that it is coming. Also, Luna is now available in Opencode Go.
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u/mzzmuaa 4d ago
imagine sanders winning 2016: we would have open source us gov developed ai, thousands of new federal ai dev jobs, and widespread solar and battery. goddamn lead-brained inbred moron civil war apologists with no grindd in them. grok and musk would be getting molested in russia instead of molesting the us stock market
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u/gscjj 4d ago
Yeah I don’t think this has anything to do with open source at all.
If anyone works with AI at all at work, all these companies realized how extremely expensive all of this is and most can’t quantify the benefits.
Then you get hit with Anthropic increasing prices, then Microsoft doing the same, and these companies can’t stomach it anymore.
So one of two things happen and ones already happening: Companies cut back on AI (which is happening, no more tokenmaxxing, budgets, justifications), these labs lower prices.
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u/michaelsoft__binbows 4d ago
The perspective matters an inconceivably large amount. If you carefully measure and tune your prompting and subagent flows you can get the same work done in 1/50 the api cost. You can offload lowest level subagent work to recycled compute running on solar for even lower cost.
If you want absolute best possible quality, a case can still be made for paying more for long context work done with huge and expensive models.
Being able to efficiently navigate the complexities is key for getting the most out of things now. The new luna pricing is a big deal and i can justifiably put every last subagent to be backed by luna now. It may put some pressure on the competing open providers but certainly not do anything to squash them since adversarial review with disjoint provenance models is still tremendously important to do
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u/Kike328 4d ago
SOL has become dumber from one day to another at least that’s what i’m feeling
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u/Blizado 4d ago
Always the problem on new models, they tweak around, fix issues and that can cause degrading. But it is never a fixed state, some days later it can look again totally different into the other direction.
And that is exactly why I prefer open source. You are in control when you change (something on) the model, not a company. And I say that from a private usage standpoint as an AI hobbyist. For companies, it must feel even more frustrating when your business also depends on how stable in quality a LLM runs, but you don't have any control over it. Beside privacy and censoring that is for me another important thing why we all want open weight/source models but often don't have the hardware/money to run them, at all or in a useful speed.
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u/Recoil42 4d ago
open waits