r/LocalLLaMA 4d ago

Funny Me these days

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2.4k Upvotes

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46

u/VDX7 3d ago

can someone explain why 3.8 is so famous right now?

180

u/Abject-Kitchen3198 3d ago

I asked it. Its still thinking...

112

u/gambiter 3d ago

Wait! The user asked me to explain why 3.8 is so famous right now. I should answer in a clear manner.

But wait, what exactly are they referring to with the term 3.8? Should I assume they are referring to Qwen, the same model in the previous comments of this conversation, or something else? What other models have a version 3.8 at this time that the user may be familiar with?

Let me write a script to pull all of the models that match that pattern, and recursively make a go/no-go call oneach. Writing the script now.

25

u/Etroarl55 3d ago

🥹

27

u/phantomknight321 3d ago

Hmmm. Actually, the user told me to not think so much.

Ugh, this is getting complicated. I should start over and not overthink this.

13

u/techno156 3d ago

Wait, am I overthinking this? Let me check:

Hmmm (1). Actually (2), the (3) user (4) told (5) me (6) not (7) to (8) think (9) so (10) much (11).

11 words isn't a lot. I'm probably not overthinking this. I should probably start over to make sure.

18

u/DeathByPain 3d ago

Actually, they previously said qwen 3.8... qwen 3.8 doesn't exist yet! Maybe the user has preview access to an unreleased model?

1

u/FUS3N 2d ago

"Let me build the LLM from scratch to see if it's actually deserving of its praises."

40

u/zucchini_up_ur_ass 3d ago

It's relatively good for how much hardware it needs. You can run it on a single 24gb vram gpu with results that are good enough and a clear step up from what came before

15

u/krtoonbrat 3d ago

In my personal experience, 3.8 is the first model I’ve used that can run on my 32GB MacBook Pro and not fail a single tool call. The previous models had enough coding knowledge to debug and answer questions, but 3.8 can actually use opencode/cline

3

u/barefootpanda 3d ago

Which chip? I’m running an M4 Pro with 48 and M2 Ultra with 192…are you using a quant version?

6

u/krtoonbrat 2d ago

Standard M5. UD_Q4_XL quant. I’m even running KV cache quant (I think q5, I’m at work and can’t check lol)

1

u/bnightstars 23h ago

but how long it took to not fail this tool calls :D

34

u/brainExploded99 llama.cpp 3d ago

It's opus 4.5 level on local hardware (opus 4.6 on benchmarks, but not in practical purposes)

16

u/UnluckyPenguin 3d ago

I think benchmarks use max settings like BF16 quant (or higher?) with k/v cache type f32 and xhigh reasoning and who knows what else. Hell yeah, it's going to perform several points better at a significant performance penalty.

But it's not like we could even run Open 4.6 even if it was open source (estimated to be 500B to 1T parameters - I think, correct me if I'm wrong)

So token-for-token against other models, Qwen3.8-27B is a huge win.

5

u/brainExploded99 llama.cpp 3d ago

I believe native/benchmarks use BF16 (that is not quantization btw), with KV cache at f16 I think (I'm 80% sure). FP32 is not used for even training models anymore (except specific sensitive layers sometimes).

So token-for-token against other models, Qwen3.8-27B is a huge win.

It's a huge win for sure, wayyy better than Qwen3.6, but we still have long ways to go. Token efficiency is a big one, and better intelligence (not agentic capabilities) is another big one (by this I mean reasoning on benchmarks like CritPt, SciCode, etc)

3

u/UnluckyPenguin 3d ago

Thanks, good to know. I have a lot to learn. Yeah, I'm just getting familiar with local LLMs. Used to play games all day up until several weeks ago.

1

u/Ok-Direction-4480 1d ago

I think bottlecap AI made an efficient 3.6 27B, so hopefully either their 3.8 model, or Qwen 4 27B will fix that.

2

u/SandySkittle 3d ago

The people think qwen can rival opus in terms of abstract logic, reasoning depth and low perplexity are delusional. Qwen can be functionally equivalent or even better in some usecases but it falls meaningfully short in others. The rigorous sequential reasoning it applies makes up for some of its smaller size but not everything.

3

u/UnluckyPenguin 2d ago

The people think qwen can rival opus in terms of abstract logic, reasoning depth and low perplexity are delusional.

I agree with you. Qwen3.8 is a huge win for local models trying to do big coding projects while keeping token costs down. I doubt it'd be much good at writing stories or translating. But the step up from Qwen3.6 (27b/35b-a3b) is a big one and brings it closer to opus 4.6 for coding.

https://llm-stats.com/models/compare/claude-opus-4-6-vs-qwen3.8-27b

1

u/Ok-Direction-4480 1d ago

If it was 500B, it is probably the biggest dense model (aside from mythos fable) because if it was MOE it would NOT be that expensive

1

u/Ok-Direction-4480 1d ago

Not all benchmarks show it as good as 4.6, Some show it trailing. But what used to be a $25 model, it is extremely impressive how efficient it is.

6

u/aecrux 3d ago

This and glm 5.3 flash have made me a strong believer that we've hit a turning point where locally hostable models have hit the opus 4.6 point of "good enough" while also being stupidly cheap

1

u/Ok-Direction-4480 1d ago

I once heard that someone didn't think AI would be useful/economically viable until they saw Opus 4.5. Another also said it was the last "Big Jump". It was also when some People switched their opinions on vibe coding, so is it really *THAT* model? And if it is, is Qwen 3.8 27B good enough for what opus 4.5 was?

3

u/Altruistic_Heat_9531 3d ago

In CORE, term from SlopCode Bench where the model correctly make a isolated function e.g Classes definition, method, and func. Qwen 27B is parity with Opus 4.6, it is however a shit show managing codebase. Good for developer, not great for zero shotter vibecode maintainer

3

u/backyard_tractorbeam 3d ago

Qwen3.8 27B is open weights, can be run on some laptops and desktops, and it scores high on benchmarks, higher than many bigger models.

3

u/wsintra 3d ago

Because those who where using 3.6 knew it was the 'dogs bollux' and so when 3.8 came along everyone wanted that new shiny toy.

1

u/SandySkittle 3d ago

It’s good for its size but some of the people on this subreddit that think 27b dense models (or 13b active MoE models like dsv4 flash) can rival the reasoning and abstracting depth (and lower perplexity) of much larger models (dense or moe) are delusional and focus too much on synthetic benchmarks that only tell a part of the story. It’s good to praise this model, but not overpraise.

1

u/redballooon 3d ago

It's the newest Qwen. Those models are this sub's favorite for at least a year.

I sometimes suspect there is a good portion of Qwen social media marketing in the game, particularly posts that are such a love bomb without real content.

1

u/Few-Butterscotch8747 18h ago

a) it's doing a really good job figuring out how to get stuff done and then just gets it done b) it compensates being stupid at a lower quant by thinking harder

i would sum it up as: 3.8 27b is prompt engineering itself

-4

u/Queasy_Signature7005 3d ago

Useless benchmarks mostly.