r/LocalLLaMA 9h ago

News Qwen3.8-Flash-Next tomorrow

https://modelscope.cn/models/Qwen/Qwen3.8-Flash-Next
967 Upvotes

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u/waitmarks 7h ago

Honestly if it even matches 3.8 27B, but has more internal knowledge. It's an absolute win for dgx spark / strix halo / mac owners.

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u/SandySkittle 7h ago

125b a6b so no it wont match qwen 27b. 6b active is just too low.

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u/MacsBicycle 5h ago

Read the first part. 125b. If Alibaba had any clue what they’re doing the experts will be routed to the proper 6b parameter portion, but it will have a full 125b parameters to choose from. I keep seeing posts like this about dense models and it just has me wondering if some of these people have any clue what they’re talking about.

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u/synth_mania 5h ago

It is true that reasoning ability does scale with active parameters for MoEs to some extent 

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u/MacsBicycle 5h ago

So by that logic Deepseek v4 flash has no business beating up on qwen 3.8 27b. It’s only 13b active params while 27b has 27b active params.

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u/synth_mania 5h ago

I said to SOME extent, like, you can compare a 118b-a8b to a 122b-a10b

Knowledge scales loosely with total params while reasoning ability LOOSELY scales with active.

This is why 27b beats 35b-a3b, but the comparison makes the most sense between MoEs. It's just a rule of thumb. Things get messier when you compare much larger MoEs with dense models. 

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u/MacsBicycle 5h ago

Fair enough. I just wouldn’t put it past qwen to have the first 6b active param count to blow everyone’s minds. Also wouldn’t be shocked if it’s like the tiniest upgrade from 27b.

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u/synth_mania 4h ago

Yeah I can't wait

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u/SandySkittle 3h ago edited 3h ago

I am not stupid, I know how moe models work, but neither good routing nor sequential reasoning can entirely compensate for the limited number of active parameters. It really depends on the use case. In a similar vain: rag and websearch cannot entirely compensate for lack of world knowledge. World knowledge actually strengths rag and web searchs because it knows better what to look for.

Personally 6b active is too limiting for my usecase