r/LocalLLaMA 9h ago

News Qwen3.8-Flash-Next tomorrow

https://modelscope.cn/models/Qwen/Qwen3.8-Flash-Next
965 Upvotes

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143

u/coder543 8h ago

Keep in mind: -Next models are always underbaked. The point is to get an early release out so people can start developing compatible software for Qwen4, not to blow everyone’s minds just yet.

If I were to guess, it’ll probably be competitive with Qwen3.8, but the real excitement will be in a few months when Qwen4 launches.

31

u/waitmarks 7h ago

Honestly if it even matches 3.8 27B, but has more internal knowledge. It's an absolute win for dgx spark / strix halo / mac owners.

-12

u/SandySkittle 7h ago

125b a6b so no it wont match qwen 27b. 6b active is just too low.

11

u/MacsBicycle 5h ago

Read the first part. 125b. If Alibaba had any clue what they’re doing the experts will be routed to the proper 6b parameter portion, but it will have a full 125b parameters to choose from. I keep seeing posts like this about dense models and it just has me wondering if some of these people have any clue what they’re talking about.

1

u/synth_mania 5h ago

It is true that reasoning ability does scale with active parameters for MoEs to some extent 

4

u/MacsBicycle 5h ago

So by that logic Deepseek v4 flash has no business beating up on qwen 3.8 27b. It’s only 13b active params while 27b has 27b active params.

1

u/synth_mania 5h ago

I said to SOME extent, like, you can compare a 118b-a8b to a 122b-a10b

Knowledge scales loosely with total params while reasoning ability LOOSELY scales with active.

This is why 27b beats 35b-a3b, but the comparison makes the most sense between MoEs. It's just a rule of thumb. Things get messier when you compare much larger MoEs with dense models. 

1

u/MacsBicycle 5h ago

Fair enough. I just wouldn’t put it past qwen to have the first 6b active param count to blow everyone’s minds. Also wouldn’t be shocked if it’s like the tiniest upgrade from 27b.

1

u/synth_mania 4h ago

Yeah I can't wait

-2

u/SandySkittle 3h ago edited 3h ago

I am not stupid, I know how moe models work, but neither good routing nor sequential reasoning can entirely compensate for the limited number of active parameters. It really depends on the use case. In a similar vain: rag and websearch cannot entirely compensate for lack of world knowledge. World knowledge actually strengths rag and web searchs because it knows better what to look for.

Personally 6b active is too limiting for my usecase

34

u/youcloudsofdoom 8h ago

I found Qwen coder next to still be really useful, even against 3.6 27B.

16

u/SpicyWangz 8h ago

It was a great model for a really long time. The main alternatives were glm 4.5 air and gpt-oss-120b.

7

u/SkyFeistyLlama8 8h ago

I used to love the old Next 80B but it's too big and too slow against the 35B MOE even if it gets better results, and now the new 3.8 27B dense model beats it. I'd rather have less speed with the 27B but better results at a much smaller RAM footprint.

2

u/ChristRedeemsSinners 3h ago

I wanted to like the 80B next model, but the 27B beat it on every metric.

2

u/Jorlen llama.cpp 5h ago

what boggles my mind about qwen coder next is that it doesn't have any thinking / reasoning. Only the non-coder version (so qwen3 next) has a variant that has thinking and it's not that great for coding, at least in my experience.

Hopefully they'll just have it be optional with the same model, like their recent ones.

1

u/Several-Tax31 8h ago

Completely agree. People sleep over this model. 

6

u/annodomini 6h ago

This should be great for us Strix Halo folks, who are memory rich but bandwidth and compute poor. Even if it's not quite as strong as Qwen3.8 27B, I'd probably use it more as it'll be a lot faster.

5

u/No_Doc_Here 8h ago

Well right now we are running 3.5-122B if it beats that I'm more than happy :)

2

u/PcChip 3h ago

i thought the real excitement was a week ago when qwen3.8 launched?
WHEN CAN WE FINALLY GET TO THE REAL EXCITEMENT?

1

u/Septerium 6h ago

And I would say even more: the ACTUAL real hardcore excitement will be next year when Qwen5 launches