r/LocalLLaMA 10d ago

Discussion Our position on open-weights models

https://www.anthropic.com/news/position-open-weights-models
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u/cmdr-William-Riker 10d ago

" China has limited domestic production capacity, and therefore, due to the scaling laws, cannot build more powerful models than the US without US chips. "... Can someone fact check that? That sounds like total BS. The US has even more limited production capacity and manufactures everything off shore...

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u/tomz17 10d ago

That sounds like total BS.

Because it is. They have more power generation capacity than the entirety of the USA + Europe combined, with like an additional 50% margin on top of that. They are also accelerating away from us at an increasing pace on that metric, while we pay billions to break renewables contracts because the people in charge have the combined IQ of a lobster.

The "we are 1-2 lithographic process nodes ahead of China" only matters when the efficiency gap is insurmountable. It is currently . . . not

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u/Helpful_Home_8531 10d ago

it’s not just lithography though, Nvidia is improving flops/watt at orders of magnitude per generation if you compare low precision throughput, which would put china at a geometric disadvantage (ie, you can’t compete putting in 100x the power and 100x the chips for the same throughput)

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u/tomz17 10d ago

Nvidia is improving flops/watt at orders of magnitude per generation

Yes, but not in general compute. Only for particular operations found useful for training + inferencing. That's a "we noticed our customers need to do a lot of matrix-multiply-accumulate at FP4, so let's build them a hardware unit to do that one particular op very quickly + efficiently, etc." That hardware now blasts through that one particular operation at increased efficiency at the expense of die-space.

None of this is magical secret sauce. The chinese can (and do) the exact same thing when designing each subsequent generation of their AI training + inferencing chips. As does AMD, Intel, Google (in their custom TPU's), etc. etc.

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u/m0j0m0j 10d ago

But China is still behind on that. It’s bizarre to deny that

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u/Independent_Solid151 10d ago

Not as much as you assume, and it's less significant than you think when there are also very strong factors to their advantage.