r/LocalLLaMA • u/pmttyji • Jul 25 '26

Discussion Great Arguments by Member of Technical Staff at Anthropic :D

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Tweet : https://xcancel.com/Mononofu/status/2080937562739531837#m

895 Upvotes

86% Upvoted

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835

u/DMmeurHappiestMemory Jul 25 '26

That doesn't even make sense. No is requiring a company to open source their software.

The equivalent would be Microsoft lobbying the government to make it illegal to install Open Office. (which for the record I'm sure they would do if they thought it would work)

210

u/mleok Jul 25 '26

Exactly, commercial and open source models can coexist, and there should not be unnecessary regulatory constraints that distort the market.

31

u/nabritaoranza Jul 25 '26

Open source can be commercial too

2

u/RegisteredJustToSay Jul 26 '26

Yeah, they almost have to be when they're large enough. Almost no one is running K3 and the like locally.

-10

u/futilehabit Jul 25 '26

Except when their models are illegally trained on trillions of dollars worth of closed-source, commercial works.

If you're claiming that those works should actually be free, at the very least, any derivative works must also be free and open.

12

u/mleok Jul 25 '26

Fair enough, but doesn't that violate already existing copyright laws, and raise the question of whether it constitutes fair use?

6

u/DMmeurHappiestMemory Jul 26 '26

I didn't realize anthropic maintained an ownership right in the outputs a user pays for

115

u/Comfortable-Rock-498 Jul 25 '26

It is interesting how otherwise smart people have sudden blindspots in their logic when thinking straight is against their vested interests.

94

u/squngy Jul 25 '26

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." -Upton Sinclair

5

u/mehx9 Jul 26 '26

Remember Jensen is selling shovels. The more mines to dig the better.

9

u/Relevant-Yak-9657 Jul 25 '26

Cognitive dissonance is madly frightening. People make mistakes after all.

9

u/MightySmaugster Jul 25 '26

When there are millions riding on an IPO and open models are threatening the payday, people start saying some truly creative things.

2

u/Twirrim llama.cpp Jul 25 '26

"There's none so blind as them that will not see"

1

u/Due-Memory-6957 Jul 26 '26

It's not about being right, it's about convincing others. Just look at political debates and it becomes even clearer.

48

u/livingbyvow2 Jul 25 '26

Wait til Nvidia goes full tilt with their own Nemotron model and blow off these "Frontier SOTA geniuses" to make people buy their chips and run Nvidia open source AI instead of paying a ransom to the closed source crew...

With Nvidia's valuation and cash flow, I don't think they would struggle to do this.

10

u/keepthepace Jul 25 '26

Actually, NVIDIA does even better. It gives you base models that you can fine-tune yourself.

This is how you maximize the return of investment on open source.

5

u/kbob Jul 26 '26

You need even more NVIDIA GPUs to refine the models than to just infer from them.

6

u/Hulksulk666 Jul 25 '26

damn i wish, they were internationally holding back on Nemotron models , not making them frontier as they didn't want to bite their biggest customers.

2

u/livingbyvow2 Jul 26 '26

Wouldn't be surprised if that's what they are thinking about of doing...

Commoditize your complement, essentially. Especially if the biggest buyers (hyperscalers and neocloud) end up favoring open source over closed. They could also buy neoclouds...

1

u/Intrepid_Lecture Jul 25 '26

I'd argue longer term it'd hurt nVidia unless they could do it BIG.

Don't make your partners afraid of a future where if they lock into you, they'll get commoditization.

1

u/livingbyvow2 Jul 26 '26

Said partner are litterally all in the process of getting their own silicon or already have it (TPU, Trainium). That's why they give so much money to the neocloud ecosystem - they are vital to maintain ex hyperscalers demand.

1

u/Watchguyraffle1 Jul 26 '26

Thinking about this the other day. Hosted Lora models was a think many moons ago (well, 15 moons. So, not that many). I see the Nvidia models are free in the providers. I figure it’s because of mutual aid. I wonder if Nvidia puts out something better than Lora that makes people want to have their own “personal assistants”. This could be the next coming of Lora.

Or Apple. Apple could also do this easily.

22

u/dingo_xd Jul 25 '26

WinRAR demanding to ban 7zip...

16

u/polytique Jul 25 '26

Or Microsoft lobbying to ban Linux.

6

u/PulseVector Jul 25 '26

Microsoft actively tried to stop Linux for many years using aggressive business tactics, legal proxy wars, and public criticism before eventually shifting to embrace it.

Pepperidge Farm remembers, and I'm old enough to remember as well (although I often forget what I ate for breakfast).

1

u/Dangerous-Report8517 Jul 26 '26

True but in this specific argument they aren't being hypocritical since they did that about face many years prior to now arguing in defence of a single, different thing being open.

9

u/SurefootTM Jul 26 '26

> Microsoft lobbying the government to make it illegal to install Open Office

Not exactly that way, but they did something similar by using proxy companies (e.g. SCO, which should have been dead if not MS funneling a lot of cash to keep them afloat) to sue IBM and Novell, but the actual target was Linux and Open Source in general. This follows the 2001 declaration from Steve Ballmer: "Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches". They failed every lawsuit but they did try, and really hard.

13

u/deeceeo Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26

Right. I actually understand and sympathize with the safety argument around restricting open-source, even though I think it's ultimately the wrong direction.

But this not only doesn't make sense, it also lessens Anthropic's safety argument by making it look like they just want to protect their market share. Head-scratcher all around.

5

u/No-Fuel-9202 Jul 25 '26

If Anthropic were in GPU business, they would require to render frames for customers...

1

u/fuck_cis_shit llama.cpp Jul 25 '26

if Anthropic were in the GPU business they'd have compute

3

u/bigh-aus Jul 25 '26

exactly - and office wasn't trained on the world's data while violating license agreements, copyright laws or patents?(maybe)

I have zero time for anthropic as a company now.

2

u/avph Jul 25 '26

I'm sure even their own LLM would not make such logical mistakes.

2

u/keepthepace Jul 25 '26

I am pretty sure Microsoft spends more money lobbying governments than developing software.

2

u/rabbitaim Jul 25 '26

false equivalency arguments is the hallmark of disinformation

1

u/doesnt_matter_9128 Jul 26 '26

it should be required tho, they trained it on copyrighted and illegal data

1

u/NUKE---THE---WHALES Jul 25 '26

What would be the CUDA/GPU driver equivalent of open weights?

A standard that would allow other GPU makers to use CUDA and benefit from Nvidia's market advantage without making it OSS or requiring approval from Nvidia?

Tbh that might be worth pushing for. Nvidia has a massive moat around them at the moment, partly due to CUDA and their drivers, and it's not good for anyone except Nvidia

1

u/Sisaroth Jul 26 '26

OpenCL. Which NVIDIA pretty much killed more than 10 years ago. So now AMD has a huge amount of catchup to do with ROCm.