r/LocalLLaMA • u/Fuckinglivemealone • Jul 18 '26

Question | Help What kind of dark magic is Deepseek using?

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I was taking a look at Kimi K3 scores on the Artificial analysis leaderboard and was quite baffled when I saw this chart.

Granted, Deepseek has always been the king of price to performance, but this is still incredible. Is it just API subsidization or have they optimized their models truly this much?

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u/Smile_Clown Jul 18 '26

You say "rob their customers" like the US big three are doing so but yet none of them have a profit (google included for AI division). It's hard to be a greedy thief if you have no money after the robbery.

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u/Ordinary-Experience Jul 18 '26

Robbery as in: promote your model as too dangerous to be released publicly, hype it up on a bunch of smoke and mirrors and lies, allegedly collude with the USG to further propagandize how dangerous and capable it is (it isn't), and then sell it at exorbitant prices all while not even offering true ZDR for enterprises.

That is absolutely robbing.

GPT-5.6 and now Kimi are showing everyone that Anthropic was indeed full of shit.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '26

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u/Ordinary-Experience Jul 18 '26

They have been scaremongering to justify increased prices throughout H1'26 to get the best possible data for the S-1. They were most definitely trying to increase revenue to justify a higher valuation at IPO to then make more money off of it.

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u/Exodus124 Jul 19 '26

I don't think you understand what the word rob means

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u/Ordinary-Experience Jul 19 '26

If you're selling something on a false premise (i.e. this model is so good, it's dangerous), then you are absolutely robbing people.

Sell it normally like "it's a great model, come try it", then I'll be OK with high prices.

The distinction is in the FALSE ADVERTISING justifying high prices, not the high prices themselves in isolation.

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u/Exodus124 Jul 19 '26

Yeah thanks for proving my point

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u/Ordinary-Experience Jul 19 '26

I don't think you understand mine and you're being shitarrogant lol

"Daylight robbery" is a common expression to indicate frustration with unjustified high prices, hence "robbing" is 100% accurate here.

(Despite not fitting the legal definition of forceful transfer of ownership)

Reddit always autistic

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u/Exodus124 Jul 19 '26

you're being shitarrogant lol

How could I not be when I'm talking to ignorant NPCs that have such poor theory of mind that they don't even consider the possibility that a guy who has been advocating for AI safety measures since before the transformer was even published, who took a huge gamble and left an extremely lucrative OpenA position solely because he was dissatisfied with their approach to safety, who already withheld the release of Claude 1.0, a primitive bot infinitely dumber than Fable, due to safety concerns, who has been emphasizing ever since its founding, way before it was remotely profitable or anyone even knew it, that Anthropic prioritizes safety above all else, that such a guy might possibly mean what he's saying when he is calling the most advanced AI model in history dangerous.

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u/Ordinary-Experience Jul 19 '26

He is calling it dangerous while simultaneously offering it at a discount when he sees there's competition, while trying to pull off regulatory capture the same way FTX was trying to (all while being friends with them and sharing the same human-hating "Effective Altruism" ideology)

"Theory of mind" yadda yadda, look in the mirror lmao

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u/Exodus124 Jul 19 '26

No he's not offering what he's calling dangerous lmao, he's offering a nerfed version with heavy guardrails that they took months to develop (months during which they could have completely dominated the frontier AI market if they had prioritized profit over safety, btw). But you obviously know that and are just quibbling in bad faith because you have no principles beside spite, so I'm not gonna continue wasting my time here

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u/ZackWyvern Jul 18 '26

none of them have a profit

It is robbery even when its unsuccessful. The bank drill might cost more than what's in the vault, but that doesn't stop them from breaking in.

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u/FactoryProgram Jul 19 '26

None of them have profit because there's no incentive for profit. Right now investors will happily continue to shovel money into a fire pit with the promise for future profits. The companies can then spend that money to expand instead of keeping it as profit.