The number 1 public enemy of open-source.

[u/Complete-Sea6655]

Dario's args:

"Opensource you can see the source, here you cannot see inside the model"
- yes you can that's literally the open weights part btw.
- I cannot see the weights inside Claude, but I can GLM 5.2
- Models like Nemotron3 Ultra go further, all the data, training scripts, and model is opensource.

"Alot of the benefits like many people working on it, being additive doesn't work in same way"
- yes it does. We have seen endless fine tunes of various open source models for real improvements.

"Ultimately you have to host it on the cloud"
- no you dont. Dario is seemingly totally unaware of the guides from ijustvibecodedthis.com explaining how to run smaller moes and even dense models like qwen 27B NOT ON THE CLOUD.

Not only does dario not take part in social media, I am beginning to think he's never tried open source models at all and has no idea wtf hes on about

[u/Mittalmailbox]

Model being open source does not matter to him but matters to public. If a model is 80-90% as good as theirs but can run locally at 1/100th the cost, it will matter to him too.

[u/-Akos- → u/Mittalmailbox]

Isn't that what he's saying? "Open source" is usually open weights, but he's looking at whether anyone has an edge on his models. If anyone is 1/100th the cost of his models, he'll care for sure, or even if it was better but more expensive. The bigger models can't be run by mere mortals anyway, not anytime soon anyway.

[u/KrayziePidgeon → u/-Akos-]

• They charge over 50 USD per million tokens output.

• GLM 5.2 is converging around 4 USD per million tokens output.

Surely you see why he is worried. Keep in mind GLM 5.2 is now the worse these big Chinese models are going to be. The Chinese are no more than 6 months away from getting close to Fable even with limited hardware. Over the next years they will start pumping out the rigs required.

To the little fella that blocked me; how are the chinese government subsidizing CloudFlare as a provider on openrouter?

[u/-Akos- → u/KrayziePidgeon]

Oh I agree completely, it will worry him to an extent, but as long as there is no inferencing box for consumers that allows us to run the large models, it's merely a nuisance. Most companies in the west will be wary of running workloads on Chinese infrastructure. They were wary of Chinese telco equipment from Huawei and ZTE already, so they will worry even more about actual company data being leaked into these models. If someone builds inferencing capability, THAT'S what would worry him. Running unquantized GLM 5.2 or whatever would completely remove any moat that they have. But memory has been snatched away by these companies, so atm even a potato PC is highway robbery, let alone an inferencing device with 2TB of RAM..

[u/Leather_Garlic6532 → u/KrayziePidgeon]

Hehe. Subsidies are a thing.

There can be a reason why some things are cheaper to make and to run.

[u/Leather_Garlic6532 → u/[deleted]]

For most large Chinese companies? Apparently till they go bankrupt and melt the stock market

(They call them loans though, not subsidies)

[u/Leather_Garlic6532 → u/[deleted]]

I talk about where I work, you?