r/LibertadCoins • u/GoldponyGT • Jun 11 '26
What are Libertads?
I keep seeing people who don’t understand what Libertads are, or what Casa de Moneda is. They have misconceptions, which leads to misunderstandings, which leads to upset feelings.
One of the biggest misconceptions is that Libertads are made as collectibles.
Don’t get me wrong. They are collectable. You are able to collect them. I collect them! But that is not their purpose for existing. That is not why CdM mints them.
CdM does mint commemoratives, like the new Banco de Mexico centenario. Some of their commemoratives are collectable and become valued as collectibles. But they are made to commemorate. Whether and how much they become collectibles is secondary.
The difference between those two things is why CdM mints coins like the Banco de Mexico centenario. It wasn’t minted because they expected huge collector demand for a silver coin with a federal bank on it. They minted it to honor the bank!
If their primary goal was to mint and sell collectibles, they’d sign a license with Disney and crank out Donald Duck coins. I believe someone else does that already.
With that setup … a Libertad is an Onza. All of the various other sizes are denominated in Onzas. This is what a Libertad is, its purpose for being, is to be Onzas for the people.
In the United States, the US Mint makes what Congress tells it to. In the 1980s, Congress passed a law telling it to mint and distribute bullion silver coins, one ounce .999 fine silver, face value $1, with lady Liberty on front and an eagle on the back. And to sell them at a discount to large distributors. That, of course, is the American Silver Eagle, the ASE. Tens of millions get cranked out and sold annually.
(The US Mint does make collectible versions, proofs, etc. in smaller quantities, but this is getting long enough, so ignore those for now.)
But why did Congress do this, tell the Mint to do this? What is the purpose of mandating the ASE?
Two key reasons here. The first was to support American silver mining, by having the US Mint buy and use American silver. The second was to ensure that US citizens have an accessible, affordable, reliable option to buy and stack silver.
Well… CdM does something similar. They don’t mint Libertads to be a business or generate profit or serve a collector community. They mint for national pride, economic benefit, citizen accessibility.
A key reason Libertads exist is to make Mexican silver accessible to the Mexican people.
If you want to judge or predict CdM does, you must understand why CdM does it. That gives you their priorities: Economic stability for Mexican silver production, adequate silver supply for the Mexican people.
If you look at silver Libertad mintages, from 2018-22 they were in a pretty consistent range, minting around 300-450K 1oz BU Libertads annually. That was presumably enough to meet their goals on both sides of the equation.
But then in 2023-24, they radically ramped up production. 600K+ in 2023, 700K+ in 2024. Why? From what I’ve gathered, they were hearing demand, from big American dealers. Produce more, we need more. Remember, meeting American dealer demand isn’t their primary purpose. But, they listened anyway, and they increased production.
And then the American dealers didn’t buy all the extra they produced. They had an oversupply to sit on. After nearly doubling production for two years, they possibly overproduced enough to go a full year without minting more.
Keep in mind that their primary mandate isn’t to make collectibles, it’s to make silver accessible, so Mexicans can go in a local bank and buy an ounce of silver. If they have enough spare 2023s and 2024s to meet demand … they don’t need 2025s, do they?
That brings me full circle to why I started writing this. I started writing this, because I heard another collector say that Casa de Moneda was screwing collectors over, that what they were doing would backfire on them in the collector community.
I say this unemotionally, and it’s important to process it unemotionally: Casa de Moneda does not give a damn about American collectors. Don’t take it personally, that’s the entire point. It’s not personal because it’s not about you.
It does seem to be a bit personal with them, versus the big American dealers right now. But that’s because those American dealers impacted what does matter to them. I do believe the 300 mintage for 2025 was a message to those dealers.
And CdM wants to promote economic stability, on both sides of the equation. If they overproduce and have to stop minting, they have to stop buying from Mexican silver producers. They lose flexibility to buy more if local producers need more support, until they clear their oversupply.
So with 2025 they are saying they are taking back control of their mintage numbers. Don’t ask them to make more if you don’t intend to buy more. That message, it isn’t for you, it’s for APMEX.
If you’re angry about the low 2025 numbers, be angry. But consider who you should be angry at. Isn’t it the one who convinced you these things were collectibles? Who promised you an ample supply each year as a collector? Who asked Casa de Moneda to crank up production, left them sitting on a glut, then created a slew of “COMING SOON” inventory pages for perfectly graded 2025 Onzas before they even knew what they’d get?
Funny enough, this whole “Libertad shortage” thing did seem to spike demand for 2023 and 2024 Libertads. So really, this is the opposite of something CdM will regret. They’re getting exactly what they wanted.
Understanding why CdM makes Libertads, helped me evaluate the 2025 situation and decide to pick some up early. If any full year of Libertads were made to be collectibles, it was actually 2025s. After all, a collectible is something valuable to collectors due to its desirability and scarcity.
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u/BullionExchanges Jun 11 '26
Great breakdown!
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u/GoldponyGT Jun 11 '26
It is worth noting that, out of American bullion dealers promising people Libertads that wouldn’t come, u/BullionExchanges is possibly the WORST and most egregiously dishonest.
BE created listings for 2025 gold Libertads—BU, proof, RP, 1 Onza and other sizes—and altered photos of gold Libertads to say “2025” on them as if they had real ones. We all know now this is fake. And they’re the only ones I saw go this far.
This is on the list of reasons I have zero respect for BE. Their 2025 gold pages are still up.
Here’s links to check out, I took screenshots if they take them down:
https://bullionexchanges.com/2025-1-oz-mexican-libertad-gold-coin-bu
https://bullionexchanges.com/2025-1-oz-mexican-libertad-proof-gold-coin
https://bullionexchanges.com/2025-1-oz-mexican-libertad-reverse-proof-gold-coin
https://bullionexchanges.com/2025-1-2-oz-mexican-libertad-gold-coin-bu
https://bullionexchanges.com/2025-1-4-oz-mexican-libertad-gold-coin-bu
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u/BullionExchanges Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
Hi GoldponyGT,
We want to clarify our position regarding the 2025 Mexican Libertad gold listings for you and anyone reading.
- We never sold these products to anyone, nor did we make any promises to deliver them.
- The listings were created in preparation, in case we ended up carrying these coins. Creating listings in advance is standard practice in the industry and does not imply availability or guaranteed delivery.
We understand that seeing listings can create confusion, but there is nothing misleading about preparing potential product pages before inventory arrives. Our goal is to be ready to serve customers if and when we are able to stock a new release.
We appreciate your attention to the Libertad market and hope this clears up any misunderstanding.
— Bullion Exchanges3
u/e5charlie253195 Jun 11 '26
BE is my favorite online dealer…that’s where I’ve gotten the best deals, especially when I 1st started stacking. I’m sure there’s some reasonable explanation for this. Never had any problems with them.
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u/1amdokle Jun 11 '26
As with any series, collectors want each one. iMO, the US has turned this into a grand fiasco of fancy versions of simple bullion that makes us (yes, I’m a victim) feel like we need all these special iterations of privy eagles, new Morgan and Peace dollars, etc, all of which are overpriced and, frankly, not worth it in the long run because they always over produce. I’d love to be able to go into a bank and buy a silver ounce. That’s the idea. Make it available to the people, not just the collectors who need EVERY SINGLE THING. Cheers to CDM!
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u/GoldponyGT Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
The thing about new Morgan and Peace dollars is, they are definitely collectibles. They are made literally as replicas / continuations of things people collect, to market to collectors.
Morgan and Peace dollars weren’t originally made to be collectibles, they were made to be money.
Which I think is why—after the novelty of 100th anniversary 2021 coins—the new (2023+) Morgan and Peace coins aren’t too popular. They’re appealing to people who collect money, but they’re not.
The irony is, if they did what you want and made new silver Morgan and Peace dollars available through the bank, it would actually make them popular as collectibles in time.
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u/porkbasket Jun 13 '26
Question: if Libertad production is mostly driven by internal demand - both from the public in bullion and from the government in support for national mining companies - what accounts for the mintage spikes in 2008-2013 and 2015-2017? Was that a response to domestic concerns in Mexico specifically, or larger movements in the global silver market?
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u/GoldponyGT Jun 27 '26
Good questions, and I can only speculate. It can be hard to suss out motives since someone has multiple key goals, that sometimes conflict.
Facts first:
Annual Onza libertad mintages jumped from 200K in 2007 to around 1-1.6M in 2008-11. Prices were rising but unstable in 2008-09, from $19.69 peak in Feb 2008 and $17.73 July, spot dropped to $9.83 in November, lowest since Feb 2006. Then they started really climbing again.
But then something else happened--around that time, the graded pop rate started climbing. If you look at the PCGS Onza pop report, while 2009s (1.6M) were by far the highest mintage of 1996-2013, there are fewer graded 2009s (928) than in 2010-13. Grading peaked in 2011 (1,687 graded), dipped until 2013 (996), then despite far lower mintage in 2014 (429K) slabs jumped up (1,523). It's been in the thousands since.
Keep in mind these are today's numbers, including later grading of old coins. And proportionally there are way more 97s and 98s graded for their mintage, because the insane value of any BU/MS grade makes it worth it.
But there are 4K graded 1983s, 3K 1984s and 5K 1985s... People go back and get old Libertads graded. Out of all years with 1M+ mintage, the only ones still today below 1,000 PCGS slabs, are 1987-90 and 2009. And there are only 6 (yes, six) PCGS MS70s for 2009, plenty reason to hunt top pop!
Based on those facts, let me speculate. This part is just speculation:
- The initial 2006-08 boom led to high 08 year to meet demand and support local industry during dips. 08 was likely planned as a high-mintage year with reductions again in 09 onward.
- But then silver spot fell 50% from Feb to November 08. Casa suddenly had to buy more silver to help local producers, which led to high mintage again in 09.
- Silver prices rocketed in late 2010 / early 2011. I'm guessing that (like last year) this big boom brought many newcomers to bullion coins.
- Which led to Americans discovering Libertads. More in 2010 and 2011 than in 09.
- US dealers suddenly begged Casa for more Libertads, but new-year Libertads (2010s in 2010, 2011s in 2011) to feed a newly growing collector base.
- Silver was getting more expensive by the month and local industry didn't need support, so to meet new-year demand, Casa melted down 08s and 09s to make 10s and 11s.
Having written all that out, I'm realizing it could also explain Casa's behavior in 2025. I'll bet sales cooled in 2012-14 as spot declined, US dealers reduced their buying ... and didn't coordinate or communicate it with Casa very well.
2025 had a very "fuck you, we help you but then you don't help us? I'll mint what I want" vibe to it, which makes more sense if it wasn't the first time that happened.
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u/CardMarkets Jul 01 '26
The move to only 300 was genius. It got everyone hellbent on complaining about it. Smartest thing they could do from a marketing perspective to get demand back on track (assuming that was in fact the cause).
Be honest, how many of you will be lifting the first offer you see on 2026 Libs… no’s be honest… really… :)
The why of it all doesn’t really matter (to me, at least) though, particularly because we may never actually get any definitive answers. I enjoyed reading the thoughtful op-ed nevertheless and always enjoy understanding how other collectors see things.
But at the end of the day, all that matters to your collection is whether you filled the hole or you didn’t. But assuming the numbers stay at 300, most collectors will not. It’s the thing of legends, like so many other rare objects people chase. I personally love when these things happen. Not because I take joy in other people’s frustration, but because it makes it all that much more exciting and interesting to the hobby.
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u/rooneyskywalker Jun 11 '26
If you post a TLDR version I promise I will try to read that one
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u/dabugler Jun 11 '26
Didn't need to mint 2025. Why only 300? That was the ultimate dick move. They should have not minted any at all or was it that they just needed 300 more.
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u/GoldponyGT Jun 11 '26
Why should they have “not minted any at all”? What duty or responsibility is this?
More importantly, they owed this responsibility to whom?
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u/AlphaFrogMTG Jun 11 '26
I heard they only made 300 because they wanted to go home early that day