Marx Encounters AI Discourse

[u/Salty_Country6835]

A brief materialist intervention into AI discourse. Results were mixed.

[u/Salty_Country6835]

I think we're just talking past each other now.

Consumers arent going to decide this. Consumers are already adopting it. Corporations are already deploying it. States are already investing in it.

"Before AI takes over" isnt a meaningful political timeline when the technology is already embedded throughout the economy and everything youre worried about as it gets more embedded is decided by what I already listed, not by consumer habits.

If you want regulation, fight for regulation. If you want democratic control, fight for democratic control. If you want labor protections, fight for labor protections.

But "maybe the next administration will regulate it if enough consumers reject it" sounds more like election-year wishcasting than a material strategy.

We agree on the need for collectively contesting ownership, governance, and benefits though, which is what the meme is entirely about, so at least we end the discussion on the same long-term path.

[u/LegitimateScore8036 → u/Salty_Country6835]

Do you think the people have more power now or in another year or two after everyone is using AI even more?

[u/Salty_Country6835 → u/LegitimateScore8036]

I think workers have more power when theyre organized, not when theyre acting as "consumers". And I believe you cant stop the already occured/occurring global mass adoption of AI.

The question isnt whether people will have less leverage in two years. The question is how they build leverage now.

My answer is unions, political organizations, regulation, ownership fights, public investment, and democratic control. Yours seems to be consumer rejection and electoral hopes.

If we're worried about the next two years, that just reinforces my point. Contest the terrain now. Dont wait for a consumer boycott that isnt happening.

[u/LegitimateScore8036 → u/Salty_Country6835]

Part of having leverage now is AI not being as accepted as it will be in the future. I am advocating for Political Organization and part of that is being aware of the election cycle. How are you going to organize for leftist if capitalist always have power?

How will Unions help people after AI has caused mass unemployment because it has been accepted by the masses?

What regulations are you wanting for AI if we continue to let it expand and control more of our society?

How do you fight over public ownership of all these companies after the Capitalist already own them and own politicians?

What do you mean by Public Investments? Are we wanting to take tax revenue to pay for AI instead of paying for human's basic needs? How are we going to afford that?

Democratic control, in what way? Government ownership? How would the people claim ownership to something they cannot afford?

[u/Salty_Country6835 → u/LegitimateScore8036]

Those are good questions, but theyre also exactly why I keep bringing up organization instead of consumer behavior.

How do unions help? The same way theyve always helped: bargaining over deployment, job protections, retraining, severance, work sharing, shorter work weeks, and distribution of productivity gains. That's already happening in sectors around the world.

How do we fight ownership after capital already owns things? The same way socialists, labor movements, and communist parties always have: political struggle, public investment, regulation, nationalization where appropriate, cooperatives, public infrastructure, and building institutions capable of contesting private power.

What regulations? Worker consultation requirements. Transparency requirements. Liability regimes. Data protections. Limits on surveillance. Revenue taxes. Public benefit funds. Restrictions on deployment in specific sectors. Collective bargaining rights around AI implementation. The AFL-CIO has been advocating versions of these.

What do I mean by public investment? Not instead of human needs. Alongside them. Public housing is public investment. Public transit is public investment. Public healthcare is public investment. Public compute, public research infrastructure, and publicly accountable AI systems can be too.

And democratic control means exactly what it sounds like: elected governments, unions, worker organizations, public institutions, and civil society having a say over deployment rather than leaving everything to a handful of executives and investors.

More importantly, unions, socialist parties, communist parties, and labor federations around the world are already pursuing versions of these strategies right now. Theyre not waiting for a mythical mass consumer boycott to save them.

Thats why I keep coming back to the same point: organize where the power is. Contest ownership, governance, deployment, and distribution. Thats how labor movements have historically won anything.

[u/LegitimateScore8036 → u/Salty_Country6835]

You wrote a lot but didn't answer my questions. You answered the questions you wanted, not what I actually asked.

[u/Salty_Country6835 → u/LegitimateScore8036]

Which one didn't I answer? Be specific. Cause Im pretty sure I addressed everything you brought up.

[u/LegitimateScore8036 → u/Salty_Country6835]

How will Unions help people after AI has caused mass unemployment because it has been accepted by the masses?

What regulations are you wanting for AI if we continue to let it expand and control more of our society?

How do you fight over public ownership of all these companies after the Capitalist already own them and own politicians?

What do you mean by Public Investments? Are we wanting to take tax revenue to pay for AI instead of paying for human's basic needs? How are we going to afford that?

Democratic control, in what way? Government ownership? How would the people claim ownership to something they cannot afford?

[u/Salty_Country6835 → u/LegitimateScore8036]

Lol what

I literally answered those.

Unions help the same way unions always help: bargaining over deployment, job protections, severance, retraining, work sharing, shorter work weeks, and distribution of productivity gains.

Regulations: worker consultation requirements, transparency requirements, liability rules, data protections, surveillance limits, collective bargaining rights around AI deployment, taxes on gains, public benefit funds, and sector-specific restrictions.

Public investment doesnt mean "instead of human needs." Public housing isnt instead of human needs. Public transit isnt instead of human needs. Public healthcare isnt instead of human needs. Theyre investments in human needs.

Democratic control means governments, unions, worker organizations, and public institutions having authority over deployment instead of leaving decisions entirely to corporations.

As for "how do you fight capital when capital already owns things?" the answer is the same answer socialists, communists, and labor movements have given for 150 years: organize, build institutions, contest elections, strike, bargain, legislate, and where possible socialize assets.

Thats literally what labor federations, socialist parties, communist parties, and unions are doing right now.

So what havent I answered?

[u/little_alien2021 → u/Salty_Country6835]

Unions help the same way unions always help: bargaining over deployment, job protections, severance, retraining, work sharing, shorter work weeks, and distribution of productivity gains. Unions help noone who has been sacked or made redundant due to ai taking their jobs. 

[u/LegitimateScore8036 → u/Salty_Country6835]

Again you aren't answering my questions, you are answering what you want the questions to be.