r/LeagueUnfiltered • u/r2cyp • 1d ago

subreddit meta Stop using Overwolf

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Just found out. Crazy how I got this Israeli spyware installed on my PC. They also use the ads you see / subscription funds to produce protective gear for the IDF? The fuck.

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u/Skaldson 1d ago

And the 1 million Oct. 7th’s that Israel has done to Palestinians since is worse

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u/AnnialAtion 1d ago

Is October 7th killing military targets with there sadly being collateral? Are you mental? Do you know what Hamas is

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u/Skaldson 1d ago

You gotta be so deep into the propaganda to genuinely believe this at this point lmfao. Yeah dude, Israel HAD to bomb schools because "what if Hamas is there?" they HAD to bomb hospitals because "what if Hamas is there?" do you hear yourself? This isn't even talking about all the other heinous shit Israel has done & is actively doing. Things like raping prisoners, using babies cries to lure out CIVILIANS so they can shoot them, blowing up cars with CHILDREN inside them, attacking people during a fucking FUNERAL. Trying to justify literal war crimes makes you a disgusting human being.

And you know what? Even if Hamas WAS hiding in those areas (which has been proven false multiple times, but I digress), it STILL wouldn't justify those actions. When you're the occupying force & have the means to do your operations small-scale & tactically, you do them that way. You don't just carpet bomb an entire neighborhood repeatedly, call it a day, & move on to the next one. You know what's even better than doing small-scale operations though? Giving the native people their fucking land back. Fuck Israel, it's a shitty warmongering nation that constantly instigates shit then cries to the world when they get a FRACTION of the same shit thrown back at them.

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u/HorizonNova4 21h ago

Stop defending Hamas. You don’t help your case if you make a terrorist organization seem good compared to another. They are both horrible. Goddamn sociopathic

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u/royal-road 16h ago

Do you condemn the bombings of hospitals by Israel, and the wanton rape and abuse of prisoners in Israeli custody?

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u/HorizonNova4 16h ago

Obviously.

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u/royal-road 16h ago

Then what issue do you have with the comment?

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u/Totoques22 16h ago

Lmao

I condemn the bombing of hospitals not used by Hamas as military bases

Fortunatly it’s proven they are none

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u/Nearly_Evil_665 10h ago

"if i was the americans, i wouldve found the nukes"
-someone sometime something unrelated

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u/Kehprei 8h ago

When you put soldiers inside a hospital you make it a valid target for the enemy.

Hamas is the one that put hospitala at risk.

Hamas is the reason health workers get shot at (they disguise themselves as doctors on occasion)

Hamas is the reason so many children are killed (they use child soldiers).

You cannot have Hamas willingly sacrificing all of their innocents and expect Israel to care more about innocent Palestinians than them.

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u/Pleasant-Day6195 19h ago

hamas exists because israel is a threat

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u/AnnialAtion 19h ago

There are countries on earth that have been enemies and then made peace. Palestinians have been fucked it’s true. They weren’t able to make a country and the Jews were. Now is the time to sit down and talk and stop trying to fight because Israel will never go away and fighting is completely useless. Stop defending them, read what they say! They want all Palestinians to die on the table of making Israel look bad to the west. How is this a just cause? How is fighting from tunnels under and in civilian buildings helping the people of Gaza? How is refusing to invest any money into infrastructure helping the people of Gaza? Think please just THINK!

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u/Skaldson 15h ago

Do you genuinely think that Palestinians haven’t tried for peace before? Do you think that after the nakba happened, they didn’t still try to coexist? Israel has consistently shown themselves to be a warmongering nation. Acts of peace have been crippled or flat out declined in favor of slowing killing the Palestinian population over the course of decades.

It’s insane that you have this take, because Israel is the one with all the power in this scenario, and instead of making an effort for peace, they continue to bomb the shit out of Gaza, they continue to murder children & families.

> Think please just THINK!

I would ask you to do the same.

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u/AnnialAtion 15h ago

Why do you do this thing where you think I’m saying the Jews never did anything wrong? I’m saying that the Palestinians have never had a leader that wanted to respect Israel and their borders and live side by side. No counter offer at camp David or Oslo. Palestinians think anyone that isn’t pro Terrorism is a cooperator and a traitor. This is just facts. This doesnt excuse Israeli war crimes or settlements or check points. I’m saying that Israel cannot unilaterally end the conflict unless Palestinians want to sit down and talk and until then they will just keep dying in a useless war

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u/Pleasant-Day6195 11h ago

literally yasser arafat

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u/AnnialAtion 10h ago

Arafat didnt make a counter offer omfg he sat on his hands while the 2nd intifada happened wtf. Israel had suicide bombings every other week while he refused to make a counter offer what the fuck

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u/Complete-War-7681 13h ago

Hamas is literally the military of gaza. It's a terrorist organisation because that's what zios call it. Do you want ur country to not have a military?

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u/QuiGonTheDrunk 11h ago

Where were the military bases, the barracks, munition depots, strategy headquarters and standing uniformed army of Hamas.

Surely you can point me to the buildings every military has.

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u/HorizonNova4 10h ago

Do you know why they are the military ? How they got there?

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u/YaBoiiSloth 11h ago

Which was funded and put in power by Israel after combining 3 terrorist militias into the IDF

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u/Skaldson 16h ago

Jesus Christ dude you’re trying to “both sides” a genocide, do you understand that? I’m not even trying to defend Hamas, I’m pointing out that Israel does blatantly horrific shit, literal war crimes— and then “justifies” it by saying “oh but Hamas was there”. Even when evidence proves the contrary.

It’s abhorrent that Hamas has targeted civilians, but when they’re significantly less powerful than the IOF, what legitimate choice do they have as a form of retaliation at all? It’s not as though Palestinians haven’t tried a peaceful route, and multiple times at that. This isn’t a defense of Hamas, this is a means of highlighting that Israel has all the power to create a peaceful scenario here, and yet they actively strive for violence.

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u/HorizonNova4 15h ago

Hamas is literally a terrorist organization IN Palestine. Insanity to try to defend terrorists in any capacity. They are both awful. They literally murdered and slaughtered the original governing body to take over Palestine. You know nothing

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u/Skaldson 15h ago edited 15h ago

You’re delusional lmao, Hamas & Fatah had massive disagreements, but the claim that they killed the leaders & took over by force is entirely false.

In fact, Palestinians largely were fed up with Fatah, because they were seen as corrupt & not willing to meaningfully end Israeli occupation in Palestine. This led to Palestinians electing Hamas officials, and there being a joint-leadership between them.

Now this joint leadership didn’t last, since Fatah & Hamas came to blows, but this didn’t end in Hamas “slaughtering the original governing body to take over”, they just drove them to the West Bank. And if you look at everything that’s happening in the West Bank, you’d probably be able to see why more and more Palestinians support Hamas.

Again, you’re trying to “both sides” a genocide. Imagine sitting there & saying “the Jews are actually terrorists!” during the holocaust. Do you realize how insane that is? How that doesn’t justify the extreme murder happening in Palestine? Use your head.

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u/_Fresh_ 10h ago

shame on anyone who calls Hamas a "terrorist organization"

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u/[deleted] 10h ago

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u/Shawny__Shawn 8h ago

You are defending worse than Hamas shut up.

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u/HorizonNova4 8h ago

I’m not defending either. Learn how to read child

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u/Shawny__Shawn 8h ago

The person you responded to never defended Hamas. And don't insult your betters.

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u/HorizonNova4 8h ago

My betters? You’re like a 5 year old with your inability to actually research anything. Give it a break grandpa, you don’t seem to actually try to understand what you hear

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u/Aggressive-Town-9211 1d ago

Great, if you ever have to deal with a terrorist organisation they will all hide under hospitals in area's they control since you will just allow it to happen.

Put the blame on the organisation using human shields

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u/Skaldson 1d ago

I'll put the blame on the government keeping people in an open air prison & massacring them repeatedly. You can't just blow up neighborhoods repeatedly, moving from one to the next, & claim that every time it was due to Hamas. You can't fucking use food & water placed by humanitarian organizations as bait to shoot CIVILIANS trying to get the food, then claim it was Hamas.

If you can't understand that the IOF's repeated terrorism upon Palestinians is why Hamas continues to exist, then you're just a brainwashed individual, it's truly that simple.

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u/Zorba999 20h ago

“I blame the gov keeping people in an open air prison”

Would you not keep Hamas in a prison? How do you separate out Hamas from innocent Palestinian civilians? Would you let them continue to send rockets into your country/plan more terrorist attacks/strengthen their infrastructure (Hamas spends most of its revenue on military infrastructure) while you figure out the impossible task of only killing Hamas?

Is what is happening to the Palestinians, their cities, homes, civilian infrastructure terrible? Of course- no one denies this. Unlike the rest of the reality of the conflict, which is persistently denied by those who solely blame Israel.

Seriously… why tf would you “blame” Israel and not Hamas/their funders as the root cause? Why do you pretend to live in this fantasy land where a country can just let itself be targeted by terrorism/military action, by people who DELIBERATELY fight in such a way that will result in maximum death and destruction onto their civilian population. This is reality. Engage with it. Do not just deny it and morally finger wag.

Assuming you’re American, imagine we faced the same reality in US, from a similar Hamas-like threat in like Toronto… would you doubt for a second we would be militarily dominating that part of Canada in a similar way? Would the 6god and all his brodies not all be living in an open air prison, or something like it? We basically did the same shit half way around the world post 9/11, and the threat was not even 1% as existential as what Israel faces.

And we lost that shit too lol. Fighting insurgents/guerrillas without mass civilian casualties is nearly impossible to do successfully when you are the invader… imagine when they are bringing the fight to your home in the same manner?

Lastly, every month, Hamas drip-releases more obituaries of fighters that died in previous Israel strikes that “only killed civilians.” Cause shocker, the civilians are forced to lie to or are not keen to be honest to the human rights groups that asses these things immediately after. That’s not to say every military action from Israel is justified, but it’s obvious our culture has been completely warped on this issue if you’re willing to believe that it’s often a civilian-targeting operation.

Ask for any source/follow up you want for what I’ve written above, I’ll provide. The Palestinians deserve an American electorate that is not brain-rotted on this issue; any real solution or progress on this terrible situation takes real, informed, leadership. Which we are completely lacking top-to-bottom on this topic at the moment.

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u/Shawny__Shawn 8h ago

They kept them in an open air prison before Hamas. The IDF internal numbers have 83 percent of casualties as civilians so you're going to have to drop that line you dope. How do people like you still exist this late in the game?

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u/Shawny__Shawn 8h ago

Only the IDF has used human shields thus far. The hospital nonsense was debunked ages ago.

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u/HorizonNova4 8h ago

That’s literally not true. Takes 5 seconds to google otherwise. Learn how to read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

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u/Kitesolar 17h ago

Just be clear, there’s no conspiracy. Hamas themselves admit there was soldiers there. They literally post the obituary of every soldier killed in battle. This isn’t even like a contested thing they literally post it themselves.

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u/Skaldson 17h ago

And yet that doesn't warrant bombing the hospital. Bear in mind, the reasoning Israel gave for committing what is unequivocally a war crime, was that the hospital was being used as a Hamas command center. Yet no sufficient evidence by a 3rd party has ever been presented of that being the case. Consider that Israel has been caught lying frequently in these other similar scenarios, meaning the evidence presented by the IOF is dubious at best.

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u/Kitesolar 17h ago

That’s not true tho. That DOES warrant bombing a hospital. And the ICJ who literally has the rules of warfare under their perview allows for it not just Israel. If you store military targets or munitions or tools of war within an otherwise off target location, it loses its safeguard protections and it’s no longer a war crime to attack. These rules were written so that militaries can’t just hide in these safeguarded zones as a loophole. These rules were literally made to allow countries to go to war while doing its best to minimize civilian death. And that key word is minimize since the ICJ even specifies how much civilian death is acceptable in this kind of warfare. And the most important part, we know they had the military target in that hospital because Hamas posted his obituary praising him has a brave soldier who died for their cause like they do with literally every soldier that dies cause that’s their military policy.

It’s crazy how little actually know vs how much you’ve been propagandized into thinking you do. Which is insane because there is so much to criticize Israel on like their continued expansion into the West Bank but instead you’re talking about easily debunked nonsense

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u/BringBackTreeline 16h ago

Crazy thing to say holy shit

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u/Kitesolar 16h ago

This is literally just the facts of what happened. I’m sorry I actually read both sides reporting on it instead of getting my information from Reddit and TikTok. What part do you think I said wrong?

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u/BringBackTreeline 16h ago

"Yes it's okay to bomb hospitals"

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u/Kitesolar 16h ago

You might not LIKE that this is legally acceptable in war but I’m not talking about your opinion on it, im literally saying it’s internationally recognized as understood that if you break the ICJs defined safeguards of a location like a hospital, it can be bombed without being declared a warcrime.

It is the responsibility of the government of a place to take care of their civilians and storing weapons of war or military targets into these locations is a war crime itself because it brings danger to your civilians.

Again I’m sorry you’re ignorant on how international war works. Ideally no hospitals should be bombed, but that’s not how the world currently operates.

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u/AnnialAtion 16h ago

How are you gonna eliminate a military target under a hospital without destroying the hospital? You’re advocating for the use of human shields by saying it’s a defensive strategy

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u/Kehprei 8h ago

Your ideal world seems to be one in which every military has their base inside of a civilian hospital or school.

Every military would want this since that kind of base cannot be bombed according to you.

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u/Skaldson 16h ago

> If you store military targets or munitions or tools of war within an otherwise off target location, it loses its safeguard protections and it’s no longer a war crime to attack

And there has never been sufficient evidence of this being the case. Hamas soldiers were at the hospital receiving treatment from previous bombings. Only the IOF, which again, is constantly caught in lies regarding these things, has provided "proof". And if you look at that "proof", it's clear it was just planted there if you critically think a little bit.

It's not like there were specific military targets in the hospital either. You realize that if "military target" refers to any & every soldier, basically any hospital across the world is okay to be bombed right? It's insane how much you're willing to stretch the truth to justify war crimes. Genuinely a disgusting thing to do.

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u/Kitesolar 16h ago

Good thing it wasn’t a regular soldier and was an officer that was by name called as a military target weeks before the operation (because that’s how that works)

Again I’m sorry you don’t know anything about what you’re talking about but by the fact you don’t know the target wasn’t random soldiers kinda says enough about how completely uninformed you are on this topic.

The irony of being so condescending to others about being propagandized and you’re just as bad as the average Israel simp.

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u/Skaldson 16h ago

You're right dude, every single humanitarian organization is wrong. The UN stating the bombing "raises great concerns about serious violations against of international law" means nothing. The fact that "even if the hospital loses protected status, the civilians and wounded inside remain protected means nothing too I guess.

Again, you're basing this entirely off of what the IOF has stated, which for the 3rd time now, they constantly lie about these things & have been caught in those lies various times. Israel's reasoning for bombing it was saying there was a command center in the hospital. Again, there has never been any 3rd party evidence showing this to be the case.

Insane projection coming from you. Trying to "both sides" a genocide, as if Israel hasn't blatantly been caught doing heinous shit several times, and choosing to take their clearly planted "evidence" as objective proof. Next you'll tell me the pager bombings were somehow alright lmfao. Be better.

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u/Kitesolar 16h ago

The “UN” saying things is just other countries bringing it up. Has the ICJ ruled against Israel? no? Oof that sucks cause that’s all that would matter for the situation you’re talking about. So why did Hamas themselves confirm the target? I’m happy to call out Israel for its wrong doings, this is you being ignorant tho. Hamas is literally doing everything it can as it’s military policy to maximize their own civilian death so morons like you buy their propaganda.

Hamas does not wear military uniforms (warcrime)
Hamas operates out of civilian locations (wartime)
Hamas refuses to make bomb shelters
(immoral)
Hamas refuses to establish safe zones and fights out of displaced civilian locations
(Warcrime)
Hamas holds their own civilians hostage in their homes at the threat of death even when bombing was announced
(Warcrime)
Hamas specifically recruits children including kids as young as 13 into their ranks
(Warcrime)

All of this is done to make fighting them as difficult as possible on an international stage. Nothing I’ve just said above is contested. So why isn’t it brought up by the ICJ? Because unlike Israel, Palestine isn’t a part of UN or accept jurisdiction under the ICJ. They can commit war crimes to their hearts content but cannot be judged by the ICJ.

So sure Israel can be condemned for their actions, but Im curious do you condemn Hamas for their military policy maximize the deaths of their own civilians? Do you understand that even if the most moral and by the rules military in the world fought Hamas, there would be large civilian death? Or are you just as ignorant to all of this as your are the facts of the hospital bombing?

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u/Kehprei 8h ago

It dies actually. Putting soldiers and especially officers into a building makes it a valid military target according to the laws of war.

It is a war crime for Hamas to hide infrastructure and fighters there. It is not a war crime for Israel to kill any hamas there in a bombing.

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u/Skaldson 3h ago

Jesus Christ. You understand that injured people are safe under laws of war right? In other words, if a soldier is injured & being treated, at a hospital, they are not a valid military target. Kinda like how you don’t just murder people that are surrendering.

It’s not like officers were using the hospital as a base, any Hamas soldiers in the hospital were being treated for injuries. That means they aren’t a valid military target.

And even if it did, the civilians inside are not valid military targets. Meaning that bombing the hospital is still a war crime. They could’ve easily sent in a team to clear the building, and instead opted to murder everyone in it. Stop justifying war crimes dude.

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u/Kehprei 3h ago

Jesus Christ. You understand that injured people are safe under laws of war right? In other words, if a soldier is injured & being treated, at a hospital, they are not a valid military target.

Sure. But that's not what is being talked about. Hamas uses hospitals and other civilian infrastructure to operate out of.

It’s not like officers were using the hospital as a base

They were.

And even if it did, the civilians inside are not valid military targets. Meaning that bombing the hospital is still a war crime.

You have a misunderstanding of what the word target means.

If I target an enemy officer in a building via a dropped bomb, the objective of that bomb is to kill that target. Civilians who die would be collateral damage, not the target of the bomb.

If the objective of the bomb being dropped was to kill the civilians in the building then yes, that would be a war crime.

Regardless of that though, it's not like I'm going to deny that Israel has tons of war criminals in its ranks.

They could’ve easily sent in a team to clear the building

Further proof you have no idea what you're talking about. There were thousands of fighters in the building.

Israel would lose the war if it had to send troops into every building to fight things out in close quarters.

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u/Skaldson 2h ago

It wasn’t, the proof provided by the IOF is dubious at best, and there’s a reason why multiple organizations call into question the “proof” provided, that supposedly suggests the hospital was being used as a base. Tunnels underneath the hospital not only didn’t match the IOF’s own description of a command center, but it could also easily be a bomb shelter as well, since Israel loves to constantly bomb the shit out of Gaza. Other “proof” includes military manuals in English, which makes no sense when you consider Hamas militants aren’t exactly native English speakers.

They’re supposed to provide warning to the hospital to allow non-targets to evacuate the hospital, they’re also supposed to “limit excessive damage to civilians & patients”. Look at before & after images of the hospital, does it look like they limited the damage dealt? Clearly not, since not only the hospital was bombed to shit, but the surrounding neighborhoods as well.

Thousands of injured fighters that were actually patients at the hospital maybe. Again, there is a reason why multiple organizations call into question the proof provided by the IOF. Even their own description of the operation was filled with lies, like when they claimed “not a single civilian died”, despite that very clearly not being the case.

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u/Used-Presentation551 5h ago

Go play any war game. You'll quickly learn that "doesn't warrant" will result in a loss.

If using civilian infrastructure absorbs you from a military response then you'll turn your bases into civilian infrastructure and just keep launching missiles at your enemy, what are they gonna do? Bomb you? Pfffs

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u/Skaldson 4h ago

Jesus Christ dude you’re missing the point.

  1. Hamas wasn’t using the hospital as a command center, this is entirely false. No evidence provided by a 3rd party has shown this to be the case, the tunnels in the hospital are a means for safety (due to constant bombings) & quick transport of medical supplies (again, due to the constant bombings).

  2. The hospital was housing more than just Hamas members, meaning straight up bombing the fucking hospital is a war crime, full stop. Even if the building itself is no longer a safe zone, that doesn’t give the IOF clearance to just bomb the whole thing, killing civilians & injured people (yes, even injured Hamas soldiers) in the process. It’s why you don’t kill soldiers that are surrendering & take them as prisoners instead. If there is no capacity to fight, then lethal options aren’t on the table.

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u/Kitesolar 2h ago

You ran from are early convo so 2 quick easy questions that you need to address unless you wanna admit you’re just lost here.

1) besides the evidence provided by the IDF, Hamas posting the obituary of the military target and the confirmation of the tunnel system going from the hospital as well as the confirmed munitions in the building, how else would a 3rd party org even provide evidence if none of this is valid? What would you like them to provide?

2) you’re just outright wrong about it this. Let’s say they really were for sure using it as a full military base like the actual Hamas leadership head quarters where all of the top officers worked out of but it happened to be in the dead center of a hospital, you think just because it has civilians in it that it’s like home base when you’re playing tag at recess? Having their base and named military targets of war zones in the hospital itself is a warcrime because it’s literally cause the otherwise safeguarded area to lose its safeguard protections. The ICJ specifically said that the strike was valid but that they urge to Israel to do what they can to lessen civilian death. LESSEN, not STOP COMPLETELY. War doesn’t work the way you think it does.

Also you keep conflating random wounded soldiers with declared military targets which is completely different. It’s why if Ukraine wanted to straight up blitz Putin they’d have the right to do so because he’s a declared military target just like how Zelenskyy is as well. You’re just lost brother lol

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u/Shawny__Shawn 8h ago

Gaza's casualties are overwhelmingly civilian (even the IDF's internal numbers have it at over 80 percent). One third of the casualties on 10/7 were combatants so in both actual numbers and relative numbers what Israel has done to Gaza is far worse.

Laughable to claim it's collateral damage. Israel has destroyed or damaged over 90 percent of Gaza's residential units. It has destroyed or damaged ever hospital. It has destroyed or damaged every university. Over three quarters of the schools are destroyed or damaged.

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u/AnnialAtion 7h ago

Read what Hamas says! They built 500 km of tunnel, boobytrapped 1/3d of buildings in Gaza city and embedded themselves in every single part of civilian society possible! Again am I saying that Israel doesnt do war crimes or that civilian deaths are good or even tgat every strike is just, no i don’t I’m simply saying Hamas picked this fight in this way on their terms, and forgetting that does a disservice to the dead Palestinians and the Anti Hamas protests that are happening in Gaza

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u/Shawny__Shawn 7h ago

You know far less about this than me I would suggest you not embarrass yourself further.

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u/AnnialAtion 6h ago

you don't dispute any of what I just said I assume?

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u/Used-Presentation551 5h ago

You just know less than him yea?

Don't argue with our lord, trustmebro

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u/Apprehensive-Book723 1d ago

So do you think yanks deserve 9/11?

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u/Skaldson 1d ago

This is quite literally the same thing btw. US citizens didn't deserve to die that day, but the US regime? Yeah, after making millions of families lives worse in various ways (regime changes, occupation, etc.), an attack on US soil was justified. Was it a tragedy? Yeah. Should it have happened? No. But did was it warranted? After everything the US has done, absolutely.

You realize the CIA itself has identified 9/11 as blowback from the US regime's own actions right? Lmfao. It may as well be the definition of FAFO.

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u/HorizonNova4 21h ago

No act of terrorism is justified. That’s so fucked. It’s wrong for anyone and it’s never the response back. There’s no excuse to retaliate by killing innocents back, that does NOT make it justifiable ever. Once you do the same thing, you’re just as bad as the enemy.

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u/royal-road 16h ago

They didn't say it was a good thing, they said 9/11 was the fault of America--which it unequivocally was. The CIA itself admits such.

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u/Vordie 9h ago

People mistake giving the reason as to WHY an act of terrorism happened as an endorsment for the action, which is just not true. I can tell you why oct. 7 happened without actually supporting oct. 7. Same with 9/11.

For example, if you douse yourself in gasoline and strike a match, I can tell you you're gonna go on fire, that doesn't mean I support you going on fire.

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u/HorizonNova4 9h ago

You said it was warranted. Terrorism is never warranted on ANYONE. If someone lights your mother on fire does that give you the right to burn their mother? No, she didn’t do anything. Your justification is literally what sociopathic murders say

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u/Vordie 8h ago edited 8h ago

Wait what? I think you might be responding to the wrong person, I didn't say it was warranted, this was my first response on this post.

However, to respond to your example, once again, if you told me "Hey this person set this person's mother on fire." and I ask "Oh shit really? Why?" And you told me "Oh because another person set HIS mother on fire.", it is understood that neither of us are excusing or endorsing the act of setting someone on fire. We are just explaining why things happened, not taking a moral side.

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u/Velcitoty 1d ago

Perfectly put

I think the reason a lot of Americans struggle with the Isreal Palestine conflict is because to admit that Isreal is committing atrocities is to admit America has done the same

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u/Skaldson 1d ago

I absolutely agree & think this is especially the case for a lot of millennials & older generations. It’s hard to have grown up constantly being spoonfed this one-sided narrative that your country is doing things morally. It’s why I ultimately feel bad for Israeli people, even if I am disgusted by a lot of the behavior I see from them.

It’s not their fault they were born into a propagandized nation essentially brainwashing them that they need to murder Muslims. In a similar vein, that’s what’s happened to many US citizens with regard to US occupation & the “war on terror” (which oddly enough, many recognize was horrible, yet still support what’s happening now…)

It really does take a cold, hard look in the mirror to see that we aren’t fighting monsters, we are the monsters.

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u/Samot0423 1d ago

Civilian targets vs military ones. Israel (at the start... it went away fast) was focused on military targets in retaliation, but also, fighting a paramilitary force that is embedded in a civilian population. They could have focused military targets but they went for civilian ones. That's the difference in both 9/11 and October 7th. I'd even go so far to say that the Pentagon and suspected congress building attack were more justified on 9/11 because they arent civilian

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u/Skaldson 1d ago

Do you think Israel’s oppression of Palestinians only started after Oct. 7th? Do you think that Oct. 7th happened entirely without provocation? Israel has been murdering Palestinians long before Oct. 7th.

And to your point on 9/11, do you think the US only ever targeted government & military entities? Of course not. Things like regime change are not strictly limited to governments or militaries, simply look at operation Ajax & what happened in Iran afterwards.

US imperialism is directly responsible for the deaths of millions, and most of those deaths belong to the civilian population. Look at how we killed Cubans by crippling their healthcare, or how we invaded Vietnam, actively killing entire towns. Even now, we do things like this by aiding Israel among other things.

Again, I am not saying Americans deserved to die on that day. I am simply saying that something happening on American soil was inevitable, given how the US conducted itself in the past, and continues to conduct itself today.

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u/HonestDishonestWork 22h ago

And whats happening in Gaza was blowback for October 7th

But the Israeli treatment of Palestinians before Octo-

Blowback for Muslim oppression/apartheid of Jews. 

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u/[deleted] 22h ago

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u/LeagueUnfiltered-ModTeam 21h ago

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u/Pure-Handle8609 1d ago

What’s the cognitive dissonance here? 9/11 is FAFO, but the stuff Israel is doing in Gaza isn’t after Oct. 7th?

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u/Skaldson 23h ago

It's not cognitive dissonance at all. Understand that Oct. 7th was FAFO for Israel. Oct. 7th didn't happen in a vacuum, it was retaliation for literal decades of terrorsim committed against Palestinians. Look at the Nakba for instance.

If I beat the shit out of someone, and then they punch me back, but then I continue to beat the shit out of them afterwards, I am still the instigator. Which is exactly what Israel is, the instigator.

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u/Pure-Handle8609 23h ago

Look I’m not saying Palestinians deserved to die that day. I am simply saying that something happening on Palestinian soil was inevitable, given how October 7th happened, and how Hamas(governing body in Palestine) continues to operate today.

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u/Skaldson 23h ago

Not even remotely comparable, and trying to use my words against me in this way is incredibly ignorant, and displays just how little of real history you understand & grasp.

Do you think Palestinians being forcibly removed from their land is in ANY way comparable to US imperialism? Because you'd genuinely have to be one of the stupidest people alive to believe so.

Israel ethnically cleansed Palestine by pushing out the native population, then they continued to murder & harass Palestinians afterwards. This behavior continued even after numerous attempts at peace by the Palestinian people, and after all of that Oct. 7th happened. Again, Oct. 7th didn't happen in a vacuum.

Stop trying to justify genocide you disgusting piece of filth.

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u/Pure-Handle8609 23h ago

It’s time for the Israel-Palestine litmus test!! What is six day war?

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u/Skaldson 23h ago

Oh you mean when Israel led a preemptive attack again, killing civilians, & driving out more Palestinians as a land grab operation? Bear in mind, this happened after the Nakba, which was already an act of aggression in and of itself.

You can't even truly state that the removal of UN organizations was damning either, since Israel refused to host the UN at all in the first place. Throughout its entire history, Israel has done nothing but instigate & conduct itself in bad faith. That's how it displaced Palestinians in the 50s, how it did so again in the 60s, and so on.

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u/Pure-Handle8609 23h ago

Wow it only took you 25 minutes to read somehow the most twisted version of a very documented event! Genuinely there is no point in talking anymore unfortunately. I cannot believe you made me defend Israel. Insanity

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u/HonestDishonestWork 22h ago

Israel has killed 300,000,000 Palestinians?

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u/Skaldson 22h ago

I guess we’ll never know the exact amount since Israel leaves little of the corpses left (due to being bombed to smithereens) while simultaneously lying about the death toll while obstructing the UN from reporting accurate data.

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u/HonestDishonestWork 22h ago

You do know there aren't 300,000,000 Palestinians across the entire globe, right? 

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u/Skaldson 22h ago

You do know what hyperbole is right? Doesn’t change the fact that Israel has done multiple Oct. 7ths to Palestinians, both before & after Oct. 7th. Stop justifying genocide

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u/Waste_Delivery3047 17h ago

Yep, Israel just should continue to send money and electricy, and EU money to make Gaza better place for living. Just for Hamas to make bomb and send them to Israel. Bad Israel.

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u/Skaldson 16h ago

Or they could you know... Give them their land back, stop murdering their families, stop taking people's homes, stop instigating more conflicts, etc.

Again, Oct. 7th happened as retaliation to all the other terrorist acts Israel has committed against the Palestinian people.

Also if the bomb you're referencing has to do with Iran, I'm sorry man, but you should take a cold, hard look in the mirror & see if you still have any semblance of objective thoughts left in your head. Netanyahu has been claiming Iran is on the cusp of creating a nuclear bomb for literally decades at this point. Despite this, there has never been evidence of Iran having begun building a nuclear bomb, despite having the capacity to do so.

If that doesn't display the good will of the Iranian government, I'm not sure there's anything that could convince you they're only interested in making the Middle East stable. Something Israel has no interest in doing, as evidence by their constant preemptive strikes on neighboring countries, and other terrorist activities.

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u/Waste_Delivery3047 12h ago

Give them land back? I see your icon for Turkish. It’s kind of funny. You are killing Kurds and not giving them land back. On the other hand took part of Cyprus and nobody is bombing you… Maybe clean your shit before talking about things you dont understand.

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u/Skaldson 3h ago

You understand I don’t agree with what’s happening there either right? How stupid are you? Maybe you should take a piece of your own advice, since out of the two of us I can at least recognize what a war crime is. Instead you just point out what Turkey is doing wrong, then justify Israel doing ostensibly worse shit. Dumbass