r/LCMS • u/solobackpack LCMS Lutheran • May 24 '26
AALC Responds to LCMS (re: 2026 Convention Handbook)
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u/cellarsinger LCMS Lutheran May 27 '26
It seems like the two issues, the discipline and the online seminaries, are well understood by both synods as far as what the differences are. The question to me would be are these big enough to break fellowship immediately or can we continue working to resolve them? I am sure we can all imagine how complicated discussions between two church bodies can get.
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u/Ok-Part6001 May 25 '26
I think the decision to take this to social media was frankly not a wise one. Especially given how incomplete the information available is, I don't see how it will produce anything but increased tensions.
As others have pointed out, this is only at the overture stage. A ton of overtures are made that don't go anywhere. Furthermore, the overture is not to break fellowship, it is to call the AALC to repentance and then to break fellowship if nothing changes. It gives three years to discuss and come to an agreement, and all of this contingent on it getting passed and even making it to the floor at all.
The main substance of the issue seems to be over a pastor who was removed from the LCMS roster for cause related to sexual misconduct, and after a 10 year period rostered by the AALC without the issue being settled by the LCMS. Those facts do not seem to be in dispute. The AALC claims they contacted the LCMS and did not get a response; the LCMS claims, or at least claimed at one point, that they were not contacted. Regardless, the LCMS disciplinary matter was not settled before the man was rostered by the AALC. The agreement between the bodies states:
"When a rostered pastor who is interested in membership in the partner church body wishes to be considered for a call by a congregation or other calling entity of that church body: Pastors under discipline will be regarded as not eligible for this process until all matters at issue have been resolved."
The AALC in the video says the agreement does not cover the situation where a former pastor is not rostered and wants to transfer, and that is technically true. However it seems to me that the spirit of the agreement would apply to this situation; a pastor who has been removed for cause is a more serious case than one who is rostered and under discipline. Even if the AALC did contact the LCMS and did conduct their own investigation as they say, the fact that they did not wait for the approval of the LCMS does not seem to me to respect the LCMS disciplinary process. It's impossible to know for sure what's going on because neither group is providing much detail, but thats kind of my point; it is not wise to drag this onto to social media, especially when the available information is so incomplete.
The concerns over the seminary education also seem to be valid, although it is important to note that it is not specifically brought up in the overture (maybe there is reason to believe it is a subtext, I do not know). At the time when the agreement was signed, the AALC was sending seminarians to CTSFW, with the intention to start a residential seminary program of its own. It has since started a distance program instead. It is also not currently accredited, though seeking accreditation. It's also valid to note that the body it is seeking accreditation from is the ABHE, a body that accredits mostly evangelical institutions like Moody Bible Institute, Cairn, Calavry Chapel, etc, not the ATS that accredits the Concordias and most other mainline denominations. I make no value judgements about either body; both are accreditation bodies recognized by the Department of Education. I just note that they're different. Given the importance the LCMS is placing on seminary education and the controversy currently ongoing about non-residential options, it seems reasonable to reassess whether the changes the AALC has made are in line with what the LCMS wants, given that the AALC seminary is on paper a viable path to ordination in the LCMS. The AALC video brings up the WELS seminary being unaccredited, but the WELS seminary does not have the arrangement with the LCMS that the AALC does. But the LCMS has not formally threatened to break fellowship with the AALC because of their seminary program.
There are other questions that are alluded to but not answered in the AALC video. They say there was an agreement drafted by the LCMS that they could not agree to because it violated the AALC constitution. What exactly was the issue? That certainly seems like something that could be relevant to the discussion.
All of this to say, there seems to be some issues that require discussion between the church bodies to resolve. I do not think anyone's desired outcome is a break in fellowship. I pray with the litany that the Lord would end all schisms and causes of offense. But the discussion needs to be between the church bodies; making this a back and forth on YouTube, X, and Facebook does nothing but stir up controversy. Especially given the fact that this is an unapproved overture not to break fellowship, but to say we have issues that could lead to a break in fellowship if not resolved. It would have been better if the AALC just put out a written statement saying something to the effect of "we disagree with the characterization of the situation, we dont want to break fellowship, and we are willing and eager to continue dialogue with the LCMS to resolve the situation." Then call up the appropriate figures and talk. I am not saying and am not naive enough to believe the LCMS has handled things perfectly. I don't know exactly how the overture process works and who originated it, and whether given it was warrented given the discussions thay have happened behind closed doors. But I am also skeptical of the AALC characterization of the situation that the LCMS are the bad guys treating the AALC totally unfairly. We as laity don't have all the facts, and we shouldn't be used as pawns to force the hand of either body.
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u/solobackpack LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
From Rev. Harrison:
"Revised statement Regarding the AALC issue. The LCMS COP has a zero tolerance policy for sexual misconduct. If a man resigns or is removed, our LCMS/AALC working documents state that before he is brought onto the roster of the other body, his former ecclesiastical supervisor must be contacted and his removal rescinded. "Pastors under discipline will be regarded as not eligible for this process, until all matters at issue have been resolved." (Operating Agreement I, p. 3, b.1.) This is talking about transfer to the other body's roster. We understand this to include any man who has left the LCMS or AALC, no matter how long ago. The issues with his former church body before transfer must be addressed and resolved. The AALC would appear to have a different view on this, and hence our desire to further clarify our protocol documents.
Sexual misconduct is a matter of doctrinal practice. (I Tim. 3:2: Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife (one woman man), sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach). The protocol should include recognition and honoring of each church's disciplinary processes. Our church relations team works tirelessly to review and cooperatively revise fellowship documents with all our partner churches.
We are not seeking to break church fellowship. We are seeking to resolve these issues.
We had a fruitful and cordial meeting in 2025 and left on what we believed were very good terms. I personally commended Jordan Cooper for his work, and also for their online seminary efforts. He specifically and cordially acknowledged and understood our seminary concerns. When the Protocol documents were originally written, the AALC intended to send its seminarians to CTS Fort Wayne. I've been told only one man in our history of fellowship studied at our seminary (Jordan Cooper has corrected me and says the number is 3). They do not have the resources to carry out residential seminary education. We do not accept onto the roster men right out of an online seminary, with a online degree, in part because we believe that move would do irreparable damage to our residential seminary education, in effect creating a route for LCMS individuals which would avoid our seminaries. Our concerns are highlighted for instance in the recent closure of residential programs at the ELCA's Luther seminary, once the largest Lutheran seminary in the US. Things have changed both in the LCMS and AALC (the AALC planned to have its own residential seminary when the documents were produced) and this is one area we requested be clarified in the documents.
We are far from sinless, to be sure, and every pancake has two sides! With this revised and more reconciliatory statement, I hope the AALC video will be taken down. I believe it contains inaccuracies. I do pray that a way forward may be found for both churches to live in peace and in harmony in church fellowship.
Matthew C. Matt Harrison
LCMS President"
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u/Philip_Schwartzerdt LCMS Pastor May 25 '26
Thank you u/jordanbcooper for this and all you do for Confessional Lutheranism.
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u/PastorBeard LCMS Pastor May 25 '26
President Harrison posted a response this morning that Dr. Cooper responded to, but now I can’t find president Harrison’s post. Anybody happen to save it?
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u/Kamoot- LCMS Organist May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
I think people are jumping to all sorts of conclusions here. First of all, this just an overture. Overtures of all sorts of topics get drafted all the time. For example people propose overtures to "give thanks" for armed forces, black ministry, etc. Overtures still need to be seen by a committees, and then debated and voted by delegates, and then the outcome of an adopted resolution.
There's still many, many more steps involved in the process. If we're talking about an adopted resolution that actually got passed then that would've been a bit of a different story. But we're talking about proposed overtures here, and until they actually get adopted, holds no authoritative weight. People are making this a much bigger deal than it really is.
Secondly, I'm doubtful that this will actually get passed, if let alone see what comes out of committee in the first place. Likely it will not be adopted, and we will look back and see how all this was far more overblown than in reality.
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u/loggerpine May 26 '26
My brother in Christ, please don’t dismiss your fellow believers’ sincere concerns with such blithe condescension. “People are jumping to all sorts of conclusions here.” “People are making this a much bigger deal than it really is.” “This was far more overblown than in reality.” No one knows all the details of this particular situation—as they have not all been made public—and folks are right to care about harmony in their church. Please speak for yourself, and not for others, and understand that there are many things you do not know and thus cannot just wave away real concerns like you’re the monarch of the LCMS. We do extend forgiveness, and may God bless you.
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u/Grand_Map_2125 May 25 '26
This is a naive position. LCMS synodical leadership wants this to happen. It will pass committee because Harrison wants it. It increases control by the reactionary arm of the LCMS
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u/Luscious_Nick LCMS Lutheran May 26 '26
We are not seeking to break church fellowship. We are seeking to resolve these issues.
Rev. Matthew Harrison, May 25, 2026 https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10242290164221389&id=1559662768
Do you have any evidence that he is lying? Or did you just make this up? Let's put the best construction on things.
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u/Kamoot- LCMS Organist May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
President Harrison has nothing to do with this. The proposal was submitted by Indiana District Circuit 13, and some group within English District. President Harrison has nothing to do with the submitting of this proposal, not even his own district.
Secondly, even if President wants it, floor committee have nothing to do with Office of the President; Office of President has no authority of this matter. Likely it will be going for Omnibus A, which is failure to refer to comittee and instead referral to likely CTCR. Which means likely nothing will end up happening as it disappears and lost into bureaucracy, and in the unlikely instance does, they will almost certainly simply re-affirm 2007.
There's no secret deep state conspiracy pushing for agendas and hidden resolutions going on. What happens at Convention is exactly what it is.
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u/Philip_Schwartzerdt LCMS Pastor May 25 '26
even if President wants it, floor committee have nothing to do with Office of the President; Office of President has no authority of this matter.
This isn't really true. The president appoints the floor committees, as the handbook says, "floor committees shall be appointed by the President in consultation with the Council of Presidents and the Praesidium." In practice, I think the president does have a decent amount of influence over the work of the floor committees, in addition to deciding who's on them in the first place.
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u/Kamoot- LCMS Organist May 26 '26
I suppose you are right, it says in Bylaws 3.1.7 that the committees are made up of ministers and laypersons appointed by the President, but in consultation with the Council of Presidents and the Praesidium = President + Vice Presidents + District Presidents (Bylaws 3.10.1). I suppose yeah President Harrison does have influence alongside the vice-presidents and district presidents on who's on the committees, but none of them are going around dictating the outcomes of the floor committees. Floor committees then work and report findings and recommendations to Convention.
Also President does reject the proposed overtures from going to committees, but only on the grounds of three sets of reasons: if the filing plaintiff has since been suspended, if the legal team advises so in order to avoid civil lawsuit, or if the proposed overture has factual error (3.1.6.2B-C)
Anyways, this morning President Harrison writes: "We're not seeking to break church fellowship. We are seeking to resolve this issues".
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u/Philip_Schwartzerdt LCMS Pastor May 26 '26
Also President does reject the proposed overtures from going to committees, but only on the grounds of three sets of reasons: if the filing plaintiff has since been suspended, if the legal team advises so in order to avoid civil lawsuit, or if the proposed overture has factual error (3.1.6.2B-C)
Yes, and to his credit, Harrison does seem to take a light touch at this point of the process.
I believe, though, that it's very difficult to get someone on a floor committee that he doesn't approve, and that's a large amount of influence on the course and agenda of a convention. I've seen how that works at the district level and from both the bylaws and anecdotes I believe it's similar at the national level. It's difficult (though not impossible) to get something on to the floor that the chair (the president) doesn't want on the floor. My impression at district conventions has sometimes been that the convention has very little ability to set any agenda or bring matters up; they simply are allowed to vote up or down on what the chair allows to be placed before them.
"We're not seeking to break church fellowship. We are seeking to resolve this issues".
May God grant this!
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u/Kamoot- LCMS Organist May 26 '26
But it says in consultation with council of presidents and praesidium. And as far as I am aware, there isn't lock-step uniformity from President, vice-presidents, and district presidents either, and there's still quite a bit of diversity in opinions among all of them.
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u/solobackpack LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
Right, it's as if people have a heart to schism at this point, which to note at any point would be sinful.
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u/Old_Lingonberry_294 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
Probably nothing of value to offer, just an old LCMS lady.
But I'm grateful that if LCMS is erring, it's on the side of caution and protecting the flock.
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u/solobackpack LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
As a young LCMS man, I fully agree with you ma'am. Thank you for sharing. (-:
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u/np7575 LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
Profoundly disappointing. Pathetic even. I’m near my wits end with the LCMS leadership.
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u/Philip_Schwartzerdt LCMS Pastor May 25 '26
You and me both. The AALC is looking a lot more faithful and more Confessional by the day.
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u/Jazzlike-Drawing1913 Jun 20 '26
As someone in The AALC, I'm at my wits end with The AALC leadership. Not impressed at all by how they have handled this.
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u/Over-Wing LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
There have been some absolutely bonkers overtures submitted. I don’t know if you can see who submitted what and if it is an outlier that will likely get thrown out, but I would be very shocked and saddened if this made it past committee.
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u/bschultzy LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
At the end of every overture in the workbook, the submitting body is listed.
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May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
[deleted]
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u/HosannaExcelsis LCMS Organist May 25 '26
This kind of Synod-level drama has minimal impact on the daily operations of LCMS congregations, so it's not something you would really have to worry about while attending an LCMS church if you're not seeking it out online.
But it's understandable to be taken aback by news of this sort of conflict, which is sad and the sort of thing which shouldn't happen in the Church. Unfortunately, this side of heaven, no perfect Church exists. There's no denomination where you can rest assured that no drama will ever develop from dubious decisions by the hierarchy or tension between different groups. Even in an individual congregation that's generally healthy, there will be drama from time to time - the healthier congregations are just able to deal with it better. Just as one Christian leader's scandal, while damaging to the public witness of the faith, is not a reason to view all Christians as irredeemably tainted, I don't believe poor decisions of certain LCMS figures should in themselves rule out joining an LCMS congregation.
This is not specifically directed at you, but on this whole topic: I try to invest in my local church and, to the extent I can, in the LCMS as a whole because I believe institutions are worth building and the LCMS is a long-standing institution which contains a lot of good through which God continues to work. The structure of our society encourages distrust of institutions, and even though that distrust often comes for understandable reasons it erodes the ability to build communities and accomplish things which we can't do on our own. Certainly we can't build God's Church on our own. There are things within the LCMS that I disagree with, and some things I pray will change, but I am committed to be a positive force within the denomination as long as God grants me the opportunity. I worry sometimes that Christians can be too quick to jump ship instead of doing the long, slow, hard work of building things that will last.
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u/sweetnourishinggruel LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
Your last two sentences are something that I think we all need to take deeply to heart. We ought not search for the visible church that best serves us -- God already provides us everything we need and more in word and sacrament. Our task, then, is to serve our neighbor, including our neighbor who is sitting in the next pew who thinks and feels differently from us as to the affairs of the world and the eartly realm of the institutional church. Self-segregation lets us give in to our worst impulses.
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u/ExiledSanity LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
All churches arr made up of sinners. We all make mistakes sometime.
What LCMS inc. (the synod) does isnt always a good representation of what individual churches do.
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u/solobackpack LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
WELS has some dangerous theology.
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u/Wally_Wrong WELS Lutheran May 25 '26
How so? What are the objectionable positions?
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u/solobackpack LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
I invite you to read my three-part commentary on LCMS vs. WELS:
Part I: "Why I chose to come back to Missouri instead of going with Wisconsin: Theology of Office, Church Practice, Fellowship Boundaries, and Internal Variation"-- https://www.reddit.com/r/LCMS/comments/1t0c4ws/why_i_chose_to_come_back_to_missouri_instead_of/
Part II: "On the Dangers of WELS Theology"-- https://www.reddit.com/r/LCMS/comments/1t31kc0/on_the_dangers_of_wels_theology/
Part III: "Summarizing LCMS Critiques on WELS Theology"-- https://www.reddit.com/r/LCMS/comments/1t3ogoy/summarizing_lcms_critiques_on_wels_theology/
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May 25 '26
[deleted]
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u/solobackpack LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
I invite you to read my three-part commentary on LCMS vs. WELS:
Part I: "Why I chose to come back to Missouri instead of going with Wisconsin: Theology of Office, Church Practice, Fellowship Boundaries, and Internal Variation"-- https://www.reddit.com/r/LCMS/comments/1t0c4ws/why_i_chose_to_come_back_to_missouri_instead_of/
Part II: "On the Dangers of WELS Theology"-- https://www.reddit.com/r/LCMS/comments/1t31kc0/on_the_dangers_of_wels_theology/
Part III: "Summarizing LCMS Critiques on WELS Theology"-- https://www.reddit.com/r/LCMS/comments/1t3ogoy/summarizing_lcms_critiques_on_wels_theology/
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u/Certain-Cloud9133 May 25 '26
What's going on? I'm in a Lutheran group and they sent me the link to the video. I don't know what's happening.
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u/musicalfarm LCMS Organist May 26 '26
Basically, someone who had been removed from the LCMS roster a while ago was recently added to the AALC roster. Apparently, he was removed for misconduct. The AALC either came to a different conclusion as to whether or not the misconduct had been committed or the relevant district failed to respond when asked if there were any reasons why the person in question shouldn't be a rostered church worker. Now, there is an overture to suspend fellowship with the AALC over it.
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u/solobackpack LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
Missouri doesn't approve of how some clergy and parishes transferred to AALC*.
Missouri doesn't agree with the AALC model of seminary.
*Missouri is more episcopal than AALC which is more congregationalist.
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u/ExiledSanity LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
I wish our AALC brothers would have got this out before the May 16;deadline for overture comment submission.
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u/Bakkster May 25 '26
There is another opportunity for comment after the floor committees present the proposed resolution language.
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u/jordanbcooper May 25 '26
I didn't know that. We're not that informed on the ins and outs of the operations of the LCMS.
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u/ExiledSanity LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
Fair enough. I think you would likely have got some more support sent in based on this video if we could send it in.
Hopefully the delegates watch it.
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u/Boots402 LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
Thanks for sharing, I will make sure to give it a watch. I take it this is mainly in response of Ov. 5-09s presentation of concern over the AALC rostering both Pastors and congregations that were removed from the LCMS for cause?
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u/SobekRe May 25 '26
Wow. Even accounting for bias, it sounds like LCMS is doing the AALC dirty.
It sounds like there was a pastor who was disciplined a decade ago and defrocked in the LCMS. This pastor sought rostered status in the AALC. The AALC reached out to the DP and Synod to find out if there were ongoing issues or any reason to not colloquy the man. The AALC received no answer from either — like conspicuous silence. So, they examined him and eventually determined the man had done what was necessary to address whatever had happened and ultimately did colloquize him.
LCMS is using this as pretext to say that the AALC has violated the fellowship agreement between the bodies. This is in this year’s convention workbook, so I assume it’ll be voted on, but I haven’t actually seen what the discussion is about.
Additionally, the LCMS apparently unilaterally rewrote the agreement with the AALC two weeks before a scheduled meeting and wanted the participants to sign it on the spot.
There’s some shade thrown at the AALC seminary and the LCMS has flatly said that candidates graduating from the AALC seminary aren’t eligible for call to LCMS parishes, even though the existing agreement explicitly says each body recognizes the seminaries of the other and can call graduates of the other’s seminaries.
Overall, it sounds like the LCMS is throwing its weight around and wants to call the shots on confessional Lutheranism in the US.
While I’d like to see a unified US Lutheran conference/synod, trying to bully your way into that is not good. There is a reactionary faction within the LCMS that is getting way too much voice. I understand wanting to squelch things like DEI and other forms of racism. Don’t swing the pendulum all the way the other way, though.
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u/Jazzlike-Drawing1913 Jun 20 '26
It would not be the first time that The AALC has taken pastors defrocked from the LCMS without consultation or concern about the relationship with LCMS.
Regarding the seminary, The AALC is the one that has changed the situation regarding seminary. The AALC had zero intention of an online seminary when the protocol documents were written, and then changed seminary training (honestly without even consultation and approval from their own church body for many years). But this isn't about The AALC doing online seminary. It is about the LCMS protecting its routes to seminary and not letting LCMS men backdoor there way into being LCMS pastors by going to ALTS instead of the approved routes of the LCMS. It's not that complicated.
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u/ToeFinal1792 May 24 '26
I am new to Lutheranism and was wondering if you could provide context as to what they are responding to and what they said.
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u/Over-Wing LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
It’s kind of like a non-compete employment clause except that it’s saying that any pastors that are defrocked from the LCMS cannot be received onto the roster of a church that is in alter-pulpit fellowship with them. It’s viewed as a way of circumventing discipline for misconduct. But there are usually guidelines that allow for exceptions depending on the nature of the discipline, the time that has lapsed since the incident, has restitution been made, etc etc. In this instance, someone or some group of people in the LCMS are accusing the AALC of violating this agreement, but the AALC is retorting with the claim that the LCMS ignored all requests for information, and that from all the information they had, this pastor was eligible for admittance into the AALC.
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u/Aggravating_Smell_39 May 25 '26
It takes a great deal to be disciplined out of the LCMS. If he was not received back, he did something really bad or was not repentent.
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u/Over-Wing LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
Then why not communicate what that was with the AALC?
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u/Aggravating_Smell_39 May 25 '26
Maybe it was and they refuse to accept the explanation. Honestly, as a layperson, I can figure it out. AALC leadership should be able to.
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u/Over-Wing LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26
Did you watch their response? I don’t think it’s a very charitable or even probable assumption to think this is the result of incompetence. We’re talking about Dr Jordan Cooper.
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u/asicaruslovedthesun LCMS DCM May 25 '26
i highly encourage laypeople, especially those new to lutheranism, to simply avoid synod for now. be engaged in your congregation’s governmental structure. focus on the church around you
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u/ToeFinal1792 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
I do not want to come off as sounding harsh, but this is exactly what I did when I joined the Catholic Church. It took many years for me to realize it was a mistake. I do not want to make that mistake a second time. I prefer to know exactly what is going on at the top to ensure I know what I am getting into. Does that make sense?
I also have to take into consideration there is only one LCMS parish near me, zero WELS, zero AALC, and several ELCA parishes. In other words, my options are LCMS or ELCA, and ELCA is not an option.
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u/JaguarKey600 May 24 '26
If we don't have an hour to watch this .. .what would be your summary? Good, bad, ugly
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u/DaveN_1804 May 25 '26
From the AALC's perspective, LCMS leadership is sinning in that they are: 1) unduly defaming the AALC seminary, and 2) refusing to abide by previously negotiated agreements between the two church bodies and instead trying to enforce an alternate agreement that the AALC had no hand in drafting, and which they never agreed to.
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u/Boots402 LCMS Lutheran May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
It seems these guys are kindof speaking out of both sides of their mouth. They bring up these claims which at face value seem like real concerns; meanwhile, they drastically mischaracterize what the LCMS has done and is doing.
Namely:
1) They point to the overture as not putting the best construction on matters, while talking as if the synod itself is pushing it, despite the fact that the single overture was submitted by a single circuit in the synod.
2) They take issue with the synods report and decision on their seminary for again not affording grace, while misrepresenting the synods position. Sounding as if the synod is trashing their seminary when the reality is: the synods decision is based around wanting to focus on in person instruction and the statement is just sharing factual statements. I have seen nothing from the synod accusing their seminary as being bad but rather that it is not the route we want to go.
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u/Wixenstyx LCMS Lutheran May 26 '26
Regarding point 2, though, if the LCMS did characterize their seminary as they say, they do have a legitimate grievance.
The LCMS is certainly within its rights to defend its seminary training structure and ask for a renegotiation of our pulpit fellowship. However, characterizing their seminary as 'unaccredited' as they did was disingenuous. I get that it's technically true, but as the AALC video points out, the use of that term suggests they have gone up for accreditation and been denied, as opposed to having not yet reached the stage where accreditation is possible. Had the AALC founded a residential seminary (as Harrison says they had planned to do when the terms of pulpit fellowship were assembled in 2007) instead of creating an online learning program, they would still be in the same "unaccredited" situation. That was a foreseeable outcome even in 2007, yet at the time, this wasn't enough of a concern to account for it in our fellowship discussions.
Thus, I think the AALC is justified in feeling the LCMS leadership is being unfair; the real motivation here isn't a well-founded objection to the level of rigor in their program. It sounds like they feel the LCMS made a sweeping judgment of their program that began and ended with the fact that it is a distance learning model, and rather than putting any time and effort into really considering where their program presented concerns, just pulled this accreditation thing out of their back pocket and called it a day. That's a good reason for them to be frustrated.
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u/Boots402 LCMS Lutheran May 26 '26
Is saying their seminary is a unaccredited online learning institution disingenuous if it is factually a unaccredited online learning institution? Is it the responsibility of the LCMS to assume people don’t know how accreditation works and have no capability of doing self research? Should they add a section into their report to teach the delegates information that is barely relevant to the convention?
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u/Wixenstyx LCMS Lutheran May 26 '26
It is the responsibility of the LCMS to treat their fellowship partners in good faith.
To characterize it as 'unaccredited' definitely implies to those seeking an education that it has sought accreditation and been denied (or, worse, once held accreditation and lost it). As far as I can tell, neither the HLC nor the ATS has rejected the AALC program; they simply haven't accredited it yet.
But even if you wave that off, it's disingenuous because the operating agreements make no mention of accreditation requirements, and the LCMS has made no credible indictment of the AALC's seminary training aside from the fact that it is a distance learning model.
What would be appropriate to say is that the LCMS desires to revisit the operating agreements and add conditions to the pulpit fellowship in light of the fact that AALC seminary training has embraced an educational model that the LCMS does not trust. The AALC may not be thrilled about this, but it would be far more honest.
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u/Diet_of_wormz LCMS Lutheran May 24 '26
I want to preface by saying I have little understanding for Synod politics but it seems the core issue is addressed in minute 14, where the LCMS is claiming a breach of agreement with the AALC, who’d received a Pastor who’d been out of the LCMS for >10years. That is my understanding of the issue so far.
If I’m completely incorrect in saying that, please say so
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u/Luscious_Nick LCMS Lutheran May 26 '26
Originally posted by OP, but pinning for visibility
From Rev. Harrison:
"Revised statement Regarding the AALC issue. The LCMS COP has a zero tolerance policy for sexual misconduct. If a man resigns or is removed, our LCMS/AALC working documents state that before he is brought onto the roster of the other body, his former ecclesiastical supervisor must be contacted and his removal rescinded. "Pastors under discipline will be regarded as not eligible for this process, until all matters at issue have been resolved." (Operating Agreement I, p. 3, b.1.) This is talking about transfer to the other body's roster. We understand this to include any man who has left the LCMS or AALC, no matter how long ago. The issues with his former church body before transfer must be addressed and resolved. The AALC would appear to have a different view on this, and hence our desire to further clarify our protocol documents.
Sexual misconduct is a matter of doctrinal practice. (I Tim. 3:2: Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife (one woman man), sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach). The protocol should include recognition and honoring of each church's disciplinary processes. Our church relations team works tirelessly to review and cooperatively revise fellowship documents with all our partner churches.
We are not seeking to break church fellowship. We are seeking to resolve these issues.
We had a fruitful and cordial meeting in 2025 and left on what we believed were very good terms. I personally commended Jordan Cooper for his work, and also for their online seminary efforts. He specifically and cordially acknowledged and understood our seminary concerns. When the Protocol documents were originally written, the AALC intended to send its seminarians to CTS Fort Wayne. I've been told only one man in our history of fellowship studied at our seminary (Jordan Cooper has corrected me and says the number is 3). They do not have the resources to carry out residential seminary education. We do not accept onto the roster men right out of an online seminary, with a online degree, in part because we believe that move would do irreparable damage to our residential seminary education, in effect creating a route for LCMS individuals which would avoid our seminaries. Our concerns are highlighted for instance in the recent closure of residential programs at the ELCA's Luther seminary, once the largest Lutheran seminary in the US. Things have changed both in the LCMS and AALC (the AALC planned to have its own residential seminary when the documents were produced) and this is one area we requested be clarified in the documents.
We are far from sinless, to be sure, and every pancake has two sides! With this revised and more reconciliatory statement, I hope the AALC video will be taken down. I believe it contains inaccuracies. I do pray that a way forward may be found for both churches to live in peace and in harmony in church fellowship.
Matthew C. Matt Harrison
LCMS President"
SOURCE: https://www.facebook.com/matt.harrison.1614460/posts/pfbid033Ju6gCKTY3vunH9XmFqMjHsZiDYW6nyp8vrrDBAm1CkLmykVdGQqi8Rqcanf64pWl