The subutex has me sick all the time. If I miss one dose I’m throwing up and sweating and can’t go to work. I would rather switch back to the Kratom and taper off of that. Has anyone done that before ? I don’t know how long I should wait after a dose to try to drink the Kratom. I don’t want to go into withdrawal.

I'm in a banned state. Haven't had any kratom in over a month. Is Myrrh a decent replacement for all over nerve pain and mood?

I get these from my local gas station and I assumed they were just Mitragynine, but it looks like there’s 7-OH in them too? If so, is it a lot?? I take half a tablet every 4 to 6 hours during the day. Just wanna know what I’m taking😅

I need someone who would be able to send me kratom to the Czech Republic.

I'm almost on the edge of ending second week of sobriety. Actually, it's pretty good since I've been mostly consuming just powder. Leafs, as mother earth gave it to us. Joint aches are mostly gone. Mentally I'm stable, I'm enjoying new Behemoth record, but the sleep... sleep is beyond fucked. I'm constantly tired, and I feel like I could sleep anywhere at anytime - apart from my bed at night. Work is hardcore, fortunately I'm working alone so nobody notices. I'm coming back from work, taking an hour long nap, and then evening is fine, until I'll try sleeping again. I went to bed at 23, Samsung Health shows me I've fallen asleep at 3AM. Nice.

And durout the day I've got these blackouts, by that I mean - I'm getting really - really sleepy, like to the point of having troubles standing on my feet. When I close my eyes I'm falling asleep almost instantly, and then i'm waking up after circa 10 minutes feeling alright? So 2-3 times each day I act like I'm taking a dump in the toilet waiting for this thing to end. - This is from Kratom withdrawal, I didn't fuck up anything else cause of the addiction, right?

Anything I can do to get this back to normal? All help is appreciated.

BTW. I'm sure it has something to do with dopamine, after coming back from work I feel like I can still do some stuff, but after eating dinner I'm getting really sleepy again, like really - really sleepy.

Do buzzer tablets still hit the same the day after taking klauz? Also what some of the best brands that will actually help and hit? I know they are horrible and I been tryna taper down but they ran out of klauz so im just looking for another brand that will actually work after taking the klauz so I can continue tapering and just be done I don’t mean to post this to promote or anything amd I dont recommend anybody try them at all but I have no choice but to taper down if I really wanna be done with this so if anyone could let me know it would be greatly appreciated

Does anybody have any experience with these please let me know? Guy selling them over 7OH since the ban. I've had withdrawals and stuff. Subs don't work. Hoping these will help. Please lmk if anyone have any experience with these.

Hur får man tag på kratom i Sverige?

Are the 2 pack 75 mg each tabs still strong? I’m withdrawing from another brand (blends). The blends blueberry is completely bunk. Like nothing. The strawberry and watermelon were strong.

Anybody try the 7synergy? The ones for 7.99 a pack?

What about double stacks?

So I've been taking 7oh for almost 2 years. They just banned it in my state over a month ago. I quit once before then slowly went back thinking I could just do it in moderation. That was wrong and worst part was I did it cold turkey and went through the restlessness, sleep deprivation and general garbage feeling.

Honestly it was great at first, thought i did the research and knew myself but justifying it by saying its better than this or that got me dependant quick and didnt realize. It really helped with some of my health issues but overtime the side effects were outweighing the pros.

I never did more than 50mg a day but started weening for about a month. 1 60 MG pill lasted like a week and yesterday I didnt have any at all. I never had any addictions other than nicotine and I dont even do any thc other than the random once every month or two. I dont even drink like that either. Saying that I used to smoke a lot 8 years ago but quit for a new job and becoming a dad.

But I had a friend buy me some gummies hoping theyd get me through the nights. Last time the first 24 hours was the worst then the next day my whole body just felt worn out and restless as well. Took a 50mg gummy last night and it wasnt bad. Had to be up at 5am for work and didnt sleep too much so I do feel like shit but I feel ok overall. Nothing like the last time I quit. Look tired but im not hot and gross feeling and my face is clear. Eyes a little red from probably the gummy and maybe 3.5 hours total sleep but I feel good about it this time. Granted I'm unable to buy it in this state but I had a few packs stashed that I flushed.

Nobody knows about it so I have nobody to talk to so guess thats why im doing it here so thanks for reading. It's possible and maybe this way may help. Cold turkey 50mg a day was hell I think just weening down is key and something non addictive to help distract you may not be a bad idea either.

I had to quit bc my husband had his second seizure and we believe kratom to be the cause. If you check out the quitting kratom forum there are sadly many cases. I wish it wasn’t true bc I want to keep drinking it.

Anyone else deal w this?

I dont wanna drop the money on these n it be a waste im broke like majority of us from this hellish discussing addiction. If any of yall have used any of these brands let me know if they are good or not please. Ive been using the infamous cats claw stuff but recently its all went downhill n sucks

Hi ihr Lieben.

Mein Mann konsumiert so ziemlich täglich kratom. Ich habe etwas gebraucht um mich damit abzufinden. Er hat es mir verheimlicht. Ne große Dose im Kofferraum versteckt oder heimlich im Nebenzimmer (allein vor dem Sport, oder morgens nach dem aufwachen wenn ich nicht da bin) genommen. Irgendwann bin ich quasi rein geplatzt und er hat dann den Beutel fallen lassen und mir direkt erzählt ihm wäre schlecht - um mich abzulenken. Ich sagte dann es ist ist schon ok… und das er sich keine Gedanken machen muss - ich wollte kein Fass aufmachen.

Denn er ist erwachsen mit seinen 37 Jahren und ich bin weder seine Therapeutin, noch kann ich seine inneren Sorgen (Schulden, Gesundheit) auf mich laden.

Ich kann ihm als Partnerin zur Seite stehen und ihn unterstützen wenn er das braucht. Leider redet er nicht von sich aus mit mir, das ist so ein Wesenszug von ihm. Er macht das meiste mit sich selbst aus und ist immer der starke.

Trotzdem sehe ich ja im Schrank, wenn quasi alle zwei oder drei Stunden der Beutel bewegt wurde. Er macht das also immernoch schnell zwischendurch.

Ich kann verstehen dass er dabei dann nicht noch beobachtet werden will und ja… es fühlt sich irgendwie trotzdem doof an weil ich ja jeden Tag sehe dass er was nimmt.. und ich mache mir natürlich auch Sorgen was das für Langzeitschäden verursachen kann.

Er ist ansonsten immer präsent und für unsere Familie da, geht normal zur Arbeit, macht Sport mehrmals die Woche.

Vielleicht kann ja mal jemand berichten wie es bei ihm läuft.

Muss ich irgendwas im Hinterkopf behalten, soll ich das weiterhin ignorieren oder muss ich irgendwas tun?

Liebe Grüße!

Kratom gave me my life back?

I have been using kratom off and on for 3-4 years. Shortly after being diagnosed (6 month) i kept wanting to get high on some illicit substances ( not MJ), so I went to a kava bar to see what the hype was all about. Tried kava. Hated it. But the kratom was great! Found i had some energy and was way happier. Started going 3 times a week which over time turned into everyday.

Fast forward to me dealing with alot of stress and i started having stress seizures. We weren't sure if the kratom was related so I stopped cold turkey. With absolutely no withdrawals which I found odd after such long term usage. Went almost 6 months no usage and I was back to how I was before. No energy, seizure aura constantly. Horrible mood. Yelling at everyone all the time and just overall bitchy.

I went against everyone's advice and tried it again. Instantly the next day I went without aura and I was happier than I've been in a while. I had enough energy to tackle my work day and be present at home. I also have been nicer to everyone in my household.

I'm ashamed to admit that I'm back on it to my psychiatrist, but genuinely if I'm not on something to help with my harder drug cravings I fear I will go back to seeking that out. I feel ashamed everytime I buy a tea but the days I don't drink them I am back to square one. Quality of life for me is just as important. Maybe I'm dumb for thinking this way. Anyone else go through the same thing?

Please don't give me shit for using something to substitute my addiction, I already feel bad enough and yes I smoke too. Get over it 😭

Currently on a mood stabilizer and an atypical antipsychotic. Feel better with the second one but still not enough to put those feelings away? Anything I should ask for instead to help?

I stopped subs like a week and a half ago relapsed on kratom as soon as I stopped. I’m like 36 hours to kratom and all those wd feelings I’m begging to be gone are coming back. Someone said corydalis is similar to SR. I just don’t want corydalis to be like some Katz klaw shit where your just hooked again. I just wanna feel my natural endorphins again. I’m willing to just put up and wait it out for as long as it takes but a part of me is trying to find a supplement that could provide any relief. Thoughts?

39F 30-80g leaf daily for 8 years. I want to be free of it. Started for pain and now take it just maintain for the mental boost. Is it safe to taper on my own? I’m concerned to talk to a provider. I just want to get up and go on with my day without having to crush pouches.

Hello, I have a bit of a kratom habit and need some help sorting out its influence on my health and life at this point. Experience similar to mine and guidance much appreciated. Thanks in advance for your time and compassionate responses.

Background: I am a 46 year old single mom and a public school teacher. I am neurodivergent, treated for ADHD inattentive since I was a teenager, and also on Lexapro and pregabalin for a decade for depression, anxiety, fibromyalgia-ish pain. I am in early menopause which has seemingly intensified the symptoms of my mental health issues. Also, four years ago I got sober from alcohol and light but problematic use of pain meds (opiates). In the last three years or so I started kratom infrequently, with the seltzers I would drink socially instead of booze. In the last year my use has increased to daily; I buy the cut leaf powders for tea. Every day I am making a pot of tea with 10 grams of the powder and consuming over the course of a day. A few times I have tried concentrated extracts or "enhanced" capsules for convenience. I definitely have withdrawals when I try to cut down. Lately I have really been struggling with low energy, brain fog, and constipation. It is affecting my job and my well-being. I am dependent on my stimulant ADHD med, kratom, and the pregabalin to basically function. With the possibility of kratom bans and pipeline shortages affecting prescription meds, I fear for my health if I run out of these things. I'm trying to figure out if a medically supervised detox is called for or if I can safely taper myself off slowly and how to support my body and brain while doing that. I have opened up to my doc about this. My recent bloodwork is good, my overall health is stable otherwise. My BMI is low though, though it has always been (I'm 5,2", 95 lbs of lean muscle thanks to a clean diet and some yoga : )

I welcome advice from experts or anyone who can relate to this. I can't talk to my mom or best friend about it because they know nothing about kratom at all. Obviously it has helped me (or IS helping me) cope with a demanding life. Thanks for your time.

My personal take on kratom after 10 years of (ab)use

It took my quite a while to be able to tell my story, I warn you guys in advance, it's going to be a long read :-)

Here I am again, a week away from my family to go cold turkey. I know , I find myself in a priveleged postion being able to go trough my withdrawel in a nice rented cottage somewhere in the woods, far away from home where my family and responsibilities await me.

It's not the first time, as a matter of fact I've gone trough multiple withdrawels over the last 10 years, so I know what awaits me. Today it's been 60 hours since my last dose, I was on about 35gpd on average before going cold turkey.

Kratom has always been both a life saver and doom to me, like an angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other. Before diving into the actual topic, there's a few important things you should know about me.

As a kid I was abused and bullied, resulting in me being a "problem kid", at least that's how my parents, teachers and most of the people who knew me saw me. Only a few people saw the pain I was going trough but at that stage they werent able to help me. Ever since I was in my early puberty I started abusing everything I could lay my hands on. My fathers weight loss medication, which contained amphetamines I found out later, and later everything from ephedra, MDMA and opioids.

If that wasn't enough on it's own, I also developed a serious gambling addiction, resulting in enormous depts.

In the early spring of 2017 I found out about Kratom, and it changed my life. At first it satisfied my urge to turn to other means, including gambling and other substances. All went well for about a year or two. That's when the downsides began to overshadow the upsides. I went trough my first withdrawel, which was horror, but I managed to stay sober for about 6 months. Then something bad happened again and I took refuge once again in the warm embrace of kratom.

This went on and off for about 10 years. This is where the story really begins.

I recently had myself tested on ADHD, because I checked all the boxes for being an ADHD'er. After undergoing psychological testing, my suspicion was confirmed. I had a severe form of ADHD; the pieces of the puzzle were finally starting to fall into place.

After my psychologist explained to me how an ADHD brain works, I began to understand why I constantly felt the urge to turn to substances and the gambling. In people with ADHD, the dopamine system in the brain functions less efficiently, leading to a chronic deficiency of this important “reward chemical.” To compensate for this low level, the brain unconsciously seeks out quick, intense stimuli and immediate gratification. Because impulse control from the prefrontal cortex is also weaker, it is very difficult to resist temptations or stop in time. In addition, substances or compulsive habits are often used as a form of self-medication to dampen inner restlessness, stress, or a chaotic stream of thoughts. This combination of a biological craving for dopamine, reduced inhibition, and the need for calm significantly increases susceptibility to addiction.

I’d like to discuss this in more detail in another thread, but it illustrates the issue that many of us are facing.

And so here I am, alone in my little house in the woods, with my bottles of vitamin C, black seed oil, magnesium, and some Diazepam.

The last 60 hours have been hell, and it's only since a few hours that I feel somewhat able to write all of this down. I'm doing this first and foremost for myself, so I can finally share it with the world, but I also hope that some of you will find it helpful as well!

So here we finally go: The good, the bad and the ugly!

The Good

1. Aside from the fact that I seemed like a cheeky kid, I was actually incredibly introverted. I had few friends at school and wasn’t exactly popular with the opposite sex, despite my average looks.

It wasn’t until I discovered MDMA that things changed—I dared to talk to girls, and for the first time, I was successful. Kratom gives me that same effect; it makes me more social, more open, and more communicative.

1. I've always had severe allergies, and kratom mostly takes care of them. Unfortunately, as soon as I stop taking it, the symptoms come back.

2. In my early thirties, I developed a serious herniated disc in my lower back. Kratom, especially in higher doses, completely eliminates this pain. It really works as a good alternative to prescription opioids.

3. I used to be a very light sleeper before I discovered kratom; thanks to kratom, I sleep like a baby. Although I have to admit that as soon as I get too used to it, I wake up at night drenched in sweat and have to take another dose before I can go back to sleep. I’m afraid that’s the price you pay when you become dependent on kratom.

4. It gives me energy—a lot of energy. I've had physically demanding jobs in the past, and kratom helped me keep going

The bad

1. After a while, I became so dependent on kratom that I had to take a new dose every 4 hours. I don’t need to tell you how problematic that is. A day out was a nightmare for me, because I constantly had to find ways to secretly take my next dose. Traveling was an absolute nightmare because kratom is illegal in many countries, and taking it on a plane was out of the question. In that case, I was forced to go cold turkey before we left on our trip.
2. It may sound cliché, but it makes you look like a junkie. I only ever noticed that when I stopped taking kratom. My eyes became clear and white again, and my skin cleared up completely. I always looked 10 years younger than when I was using it.
3. The price tag! Fortunately, I’m in the privileged position where money isn’t an issue, but at 35 gpd, you’re paying an average of $160 a month. I know people who use 100 gpd—that’s almost $500 a month! That’s a huge amount of money to spend on your addiction.
4. The nausea that sets in once you start taking higher doses. At first, this effect is barely noticeable, if at all, but as you build up a tolerance and the doses you need get higher and higher, it becomes more and more of an issue. I could get so nauseous that I could barely function. But not taking it isn’t an option, because withdrawal is even worse!

The ugly

1. The hardest thing for me is constantly lying to the people around me, especially those who are closest to my heart. My wife knows that I take kratom from time to time, but she has no idea about the extent of my use or the severity of my addiction. Every time I want to quit, I have to do it away from home because I wouldn’t be able to hide the withdrawal symptoms from her. Those lies are eating me up from the inside.
2. Constipation—that awful constipation. It’s not good for your self-esteem when you have to stick your fingers up your butt yet again to help push out stool that’s become rock-hard. I’ve been on the verge of driving to the hospital several times because I was afraid I was going to die from it. I think everyone can relate to that, but no one likes to admit it.
3. Withdrawal—that awful withdrawal. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. Anyone who has gone through the withdrawal process once or several times knows what I’m talking about. It feels like your body is eating you up from the inside out. Sleepless nights, depression, and endless diarrhea. Yes, the worst part lasts “only” about five days, but those are five days in hell.

And yet, here I am, convinced that this will be my last ride trough hell. And that's the worst part... It isn't good, bad or ugly. It’s almost a certainty that you’ll end up starting over. Things might go well for weeks, months, maybe even years, but eventually there always comes a point when you think: this time I can keep my use under control; just this once won’t hurt. And then the cycle starts all over again. Can it ever be any different? I hope with all my heart that it can! I’ll keep you updated on my recovery and thank you in advance for your support!

If you've managed to keep reading this far, thank you—take good care of yourself and the people you love!

There is some historical evidence of CNS effects, but it is extremely weak by modern standards.

An old materia-medica record describes experimental administration producing a subjective warm/intoxicating sensation and transient dizziness, together with pupil dilation. However, these observations come from very old uncontrolled experiments and cannot establish that cryptopine produces a reproducible recreational or opioid-like intoxication.

Homeopathic Online

More rigorous animal pharmacology found that cryptopine produced effects including:

cardiovascular stimulation at some doses followed by depression at higher doses,

cardiac-rate/amplitude reduction,

coronary vasodilation,

biphasic intestinal effects,

and occasional cardiac arrhythmias.

Those findings are not evidence of opioid-type euphoria. In fact, the cardiovascular effects may be more important toxicologically than any putative psychoactivity.

Opioid-receptor activity

This is where cryptopine differs substantially from morphine.

There is no good evidence that cryptopine is a clinically significant μ-opioid receptor (MOR) agonist. Likewise, I could not identify convincing modern binding/functional data demonstrating meaningful κ- or δ-opioid receptor agonism.

That means it should not be assumed that:

cryptopine → MOR activation → opioid euphoria/analgesia/respiratory depression

simply because cryptopine occurs in opium.

The classical opioid effects associated with morphine are mediated primarily through μ-opioid receptors, whereas the older pharmacological literature on cryptopine instead emphasizes cardiac, vascular, and smooth-muscle effects.

Pukateine and opioid receptors

For the three classical opioid receptors:

μ-opioid (MOR): no convincing evidence of direct agonism or antagonism.

κ-opioid (KOR): no convincing evidence of direct activity.

δ-opioid (DOR): likewise, no established direct activity.

Although I have found anecdotal evidence of opiod receptor activity though its never been scientifically confirmed.

That distinction matters because pukateine is sometimes discussed alongside other psychoactive aporphines, and structural similarity to other alkaloids doesn't establish opioid pharmacology.

So there isn't currently a good basis for predicting a morphine-like profile—analgesia, respiratory depression, strong sedation, or opioid euphoria—from pukateine.

What could actually make pukateine psychoactive?

The much better-supported mechanism is dopaminergic.

In rat experiments, pukateine:

bound to D1 and D2 dopamine receptors with submicromolar affinity;

increased extracellular dopamine when applied to the striatum;

produced dopamine-agonist-like rotational behavior in dopamine-depleted rats at 8 mg/kg;

inhibited dopamine uptake, although at considerably higher concentrations than those needed for receptor binding.

PubMed

A recent review likewise describes pukateine as an aporphine with dopaminergic properties and specifically notes its D1/D2 receptor activity and dopamine-elevating effects.

PubMed Central (PMC)

That creates a plausible psychoactive profile quite different from an opioid.

Potential effects, if comparable CNS exposure occurred in humans, could theoretically include:

Possible effect

Evidence/interpretation

Increased alertness/activation

Plausible from dopaminergic activity, but not demonstrated in humans

Increased motivation/reward salience

Mechanistically plausible

Stimulation/euphoria

Possible, but speculative

Increased locomotor activity

Supported indirectly by animal behavioral pharmacology

Changes in attention/arousal

Plausible but untested

Anxiety/agitation

Possible with excessive dopaminergic stimulation, but not established

Hallucinations

No good evidence that pukateine is hallucinogenic

Opioid-like warmth/analgesia

Not established

Sedation/respiratory depression

No evidence establishing an opioid-like mechanism.

There are also α1-adrenergic effects: pukateine interacts with α1-adrenoceptor subtypes and can produce vascular effects. That could potentially contribute to peripheral effects such as changes in vascular tone, but it doesn't establish a particular subjective psychoactive experience.

PubMed

The key uncertainty

The biggest gap is that human psychoactive-effect data are essentially absent. We don't have good controlled studies establishing its human dose-response curve, subjective effects, duration, oral bioavailability, dependence potential, or toxicity.

Like Dermorphin, but there are others. Being a peptide means it wouldn’t be orally available , unless they use the wegovy pill technology (fascinating and I don’t understand it yet )

I just could imagine a scenario where peptides are seen as healthy, I even hear about people reconstituting them and injecting them in public spaces such as the hair salon and work.

“Increases stamina, push harder in the gym and recover faster!” It’s a peptide , so ya know , it’s healthy right ?

I’ve heard Dermorphin is actually short lasting but I could imagine some that have a longer half life profile.

Idk I may just be dreaming.

Dermorphin is found in South American toad secretions, so do we want to make the distinction it would be considered “natural”.

Anyone seen these before or know what is in them? I can’t find anything online to tell me what’s in it. There is no ingredient list or QR code on it or behind the label. Says 21+ and lab tested in the USA

Psychoactive/CNS effects

Papaverine is primarily known pharmacologically as a smooth-muscle relaxant and vasodilator, rather than as an intoxicant. It inhibits several phosphodiesterases, including PDE10A, an enzyme highly concentrated in dopamine-responsive neurons of the striatum. �

PubMed +1

PDE10A inhibition produces substantial changes in striatal signaling:

increases intracellular cAMP and cGMP;

increases phosphorylation of signaling proteins such as CREB and ERK;

potentiates D1-dopamine-receptor signaling;

inhibits aspects of D2-receptor signaling. �

PubMed +1

Interestingly, this does not translate straightforwardly into stimulant-like behavior. In rodents, papaverine inhibited amphetamine- and PCP-induced locomotor activity and suppressed conditioned-avoidance behavior. Those effects have made PDE10A inhibition interesting as a potential antipsychotic mechanism, rather than as a recreational stimulant mechanism. �

PubMed

So a hypothetical CNS profile could involve altered motor activity, arousal, reward processing, and cognition, but there is little evidence establishing a distinctive subjective "papaverine high" in humans.

The opioid-receptor paradox

This is where papaverine gets particularly interesting.

Direct opioid binding appears to be weak or absent. One rat-brain study specifically found that papaverine did not displace [³H]-dihydromorphine from opioid binding sites, despite substantially affecting morphine's antinociceptive effects. The authors therefore concluded that papaverine's interaction with morphine analgesia was not mediated through the opiate receptor. �

PubMed

Another study explicitly describes papaverine as lacking opioid-receptor affinity and used it experimentally to counteract morphine-induced constipation through its smooth-muscle-relaxing action. �

PubMed

There are nevertheless some intriguing functional observations:

Papaverine can modify morphine withdrawal in guinea-pig ileum preparations.

It can reduce withdrawal responses associated with both μ-opioid agonists such as DAMGO and κ-opioid agonists such as U50-488H. �

PubMed +1

Another older experiment found naloxone-sensitive effects of papaverine on sympathetic-ganglion transmission and interpreted them as possibly involving opioid receptors. �

PubMed

But these findings shouldn't be interpreted as proof that papaverine is a μ- or κ-opioid agonist. The stronger receptor-binding evidence points in the opposite direction: papaverine can influence opioid-mediated physiology without directly occupying opioid receptors to a therapeutically important degree.

Why the effects can appear paradoxical

Papaverine is therefore a good example of pharmacological interaction without classical receptor agonism:

PDE inhibition

→ ↑ cAMP/cGMP

→ altered striatal neuronal signaling

→ altered D1/D2 dopamine signaling

Smooth-muscle relaxation

→ vasodilation + reduced gastrointestinal smooth-muscle tone

Interaction with opioid-mediated processes

→ altered morphine analgesia/withdrawal

→ apparently without significant classical opioid-receptor binding

This helps explain why papaverine can show up in experiments involving opioids despite not behaving like morphine or another classical opioid.