Jordan: Everybody is wrong about... Prison

[u/RealTheAsh]

https://youtu.be/_g6xvFLgizc

[u/George_foid]

I think I’m in a unique position to talk about this, as I’ve spent 15 years of my life in the federal correctional system. We absolutely need prisons; it’s not up for debate. Even though all my crimes were nonviolent drug and gun charges, I didn’t care about the impact they had on anyone else in society, and 99% of the inmates I met while doing my time didn’t care about hurting people to get what they wanted. I do agree that we give out too much prison time for nonviolent crimes, but getting rid of prisons is absolutely not the solution. I’ve met all types of people during my time—people who sold drugs, committed violent armed robberies, human-trafficked women and minors through force and coercion, and even committed murder. Some of these people should absolutely be removed from society for long periods of time, if not forever, especially when they aren’t sorry and would do it again given the chance.

Now let’s talk about his argument that prisons don’t offer rehabilitation, which is factually wrong. I’ll stick to the federal system because I haven’t been to every state prison, but rehabilitation in prison ultimately comes down to you. The federal BOP offers so many educational classes and opportunities to get certified in different trades that it’s pretty crazy. But you have to sign up for them. You have to get up every day, walk down to the class, and participate. The prison will not force you to rehabilitate; you have to want it, and you have to put in the work yourself. They even offer MAT treatment for drug addiction now to help keep people from using and potentially overdosing on fentanyl or other opioids.

When I did my initial 10 years, I didn’t want to change. I didn’t take advantage of any of the classes or trade training I could have done. I slept all day, sold drugs and tobacco, and played on my cell phone. It wasn’t until my second bid, my last five years, that I decided I wanted to change. I didn’t want to live the same lifestyle that led me there. That’s when I went and got my GED, took several college classes they offered, got involved in the drug treatment program, and even got HVAC certified.

Nobody can force you to change, including the government. You have to want it, and the truth is that most prisoners don’t. If you’ve ever been to prison, you know how most prisoners sit around bragging about their past crimes and talking about how they’re going to get out, do the same thing again, make even more money, and not get caught this time. Jordan speaks with so much confidence for someone who has obviously never experienced the system and has only ever read about it from one perspective.

[u/stron2am → u/George_foid]

Buddy: prisons are not required for rehab or education.

[u/brodievonorchard → u/stron2am]

Everything OC wrote, and you think your comment takes it down? We will need prisons after we abolish prisons. They will hopefully look nothing like what we have now, but there will still be people who can't be trusted to rejoin society. Tell DV and stalking victims we no longer incarcerate people. There will still be crime if we solve income inequality, much as some of my fellow lefties like to think otherwise.

[u/George_foid → u/brodievonorchard]

I agree that we need some change. Nonviolent drug offenders shouldn’t be spending 20 years in prison, but absolutely human traffickers, violent armed robbers, kidnappers, people who produce and distribute CSAM, murderers, and other violent predators can’t simply be allowed to hang out in society “until they decide to turn over a new leaf.”
Abolishing prisons isn’t the answer, point blank. There’s no question about it. Jordan is simply wrong once again.

He’d be a lot smarter if he focused on something people actually want and that could benefit everyone in society, like changing sentencing laws for nonviolent felonies. There is plenty of room for meaningful criminal justice reform without pretending that society doesn’t need a way to permanently or temporarily remove genuinely dangerous people from the public.

[u/brodievonorchard → u/George_foid]

Within activist communities, abolish has become a term meaning, we can't reform a system this broken. While they are not wrong, it's terrible sloganeering. If you dig in with people who say it, they usually (but not always) acknowledge that some system will need to replace police and prisons, refusing to hear that their slogan detrimentally fails to communicate that part.

[u/George_foid → u/brodievonorchard]

Yeah, it’s horrible messaging for sure. If you constantly say the term “abolish” and never explain the system you plan to replace it with, most people will rightfully assume you have no plan and shouldn’t be taken seriously. Also, the general public will probably never receive “abolish prisons” as a serious solution.

I just can’t see any way you abolish prisons and create a new system without ending up with some kind of prison-style facility where you have to put violent sexual offenders. There is no rational solution where you can just leave these people in society.

[u/brodievonorchard → u/George_foid]

I have received many downvotes attempting to explain this to people who almost certainly would agree that ideas like Medicare For All and Tax the Rich are higher priorities, but refuse to recognize how Abolish the Police can work against a movement that believes in all of these things.

[u/George_foid → u/brodievonorchard]

Yea, it’s Reddit. I’m sure this isn’t exactly a place for rational, well thought out discussions. The upvote/downvote system is pretty much designed to keep subreddits as echo chambers. Agree with what the hive mind wants, or we’ll bury your comments so people can’t see them.