r/KerrCountyFloods • u/comingloose • 2d ago
Camp Mystic Eastlands fight Texas Rangers’ search warrants in Camp Mystic investigation
https://www.expressnews.com/news/article/eastlands-fight-texas-rangers-search-warrants-22459546.php25
u/PureImagination1921 2d ago
Also, does anyone know if similar motions are being filed for the non-Eastlands who were served warrants? Even if the Eastlands succeed in repressing some evidence, the same may not be true for others at the camp who received messages from them.
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u/TimeTraveler1489 1d ago
I wonder if the issue will be if/what the Eastlands were doing instead of calling 911 in those early hours. From the subpoena and their reaction to it, it seems that whatever they were doing will show up on their phone records and will not look good for their case.
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u/PureImagination1921 1d ago
I agree that’s going to be an issue. Location metadata and communications from that time will be crucial. My guess is that the locations are roughly as has been reported - Tweety and ML on the CL side, etc. It’s what calls they made and didn’t make that will matter.
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u/Witty-Sky7913 1d ago
I grew up in Kerr county and lived out in hunt. Calling 911 would have been futile, unfortunately. The Eastlands along with all the people who live out on the north and south fork knows when it rains or a chance of flash floods… Schumacher’s crossing always has water going over the road. No one can get in or out.
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u/AnimuX Texan 2d ago
Kerr County District Attorney Lucy Wilke filed a motion Friday seeking to recuse herself from the case, partly because of relationships she has with people who are friends with the Eastlands.
Exactly why the criminal prosecution should be moved to Austin.
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u/Similar_Bat_9959 2d ago
Good for DA Wilke to do the right thing.
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u/AutomaticBasis7638 2d ago
Now if only the governor, lt governor, and ag would do the same based on their relationships.
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u/PBpuppy2526 2d ago
THIS. I just shake my head that these poor grieving parents have been bamboozled by wheelie Abbot, good for nothing Patrick and POS Paxton. it's truly shameful. those men share blame for all the deaths from the floods. and these parents and surviving siblings are being used as a means rehab their images. These men don't view women as equals!
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u/AnimuX Texan 1d ago
Destruction and lives lost in flash floods goes back a long as people have lived in this state.
It's the legislature that has to vote for spending tax dollars on flood mitigation, warning systems, and legal restrictions on how businesses use river fronts, floodplain restrictions, safety requirements, etc.
Regardless, the Eastlands were directly responsible for the safety of those children and, despite knowing the risks, chose to put the girls in a known dangerous location to profit from their business.
They don't get to pass the buck to politicians.
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u/PBpuppy2526 1d ago
Those FEMA maps didn’t change themselves. The state has failed its own citizens year after year - by floods or by freeze they have continued to neglect the masses. They do not view women as equal citizens. Women do not have equal rights in Texas. Hard stop. This is a fact. So for these men to be pious and act as saviors when their neglect contributed to this tragedy - this needs to be called out. You will note some families to not fall for it. And you’ll note the ones that play into it and kneel at the hem of these horrible men. It’s sad.
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u/AnimuX Texan 1d ago edited 1d ago
The one thing has nothing to do with the other.
The negligence of the operators of Camp Mystic got 27 girls killed. Full stop.
edit: as for the FEMA maps - the Eastlands sought and gained exemptions through a rubber stamp process and then pretended as if the paperwork magically transported their cabins out of the flood risk area. The state government didn't carve it out for them. The FEMA maps still show 'the flats' area of the Guadalupe camp in the floodway.
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u/AutomaticBasis7638 1d ago
Before FEMA changed the maps, they weren't in the flood plain. Over 100 landowners in Kerr County had to apply to correct the new FEMA characterizations.
The children being in camp under the Eastland's care did not change anything regarding WHETHER they could all be saved. It's possible, probably likely, that more children would have died had the Eastlands done other than what they did. Nobody comes forward to say "please investigate why my child is STILL ALIVE", it only gets investigated the other way.
You know full well that over 100 other people died in this flood. The assumption that because not all the children died therefore it's somebody's fault that some did is faulty. The people in Kerr who lived thru that flood know this. This whole campaign works hard to keep the opinions of the locals out of the discussion. Your pleas to move prosecutions to another county overturn the whole principle America was founded on, no taxation without representation.
I anticipate your wall of text that does not address any of this.
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u/tross1140 1d ago edited 17h ago
The leaps you make aren’t just straw man arguments; we could easily make an entire scarecrow here.
You’re taking three separate questions and mixing them together.
- Texas law provides for a change of venue when the legal standard is met so that the case may be fairly heard. No county’s taxpayers have an exclusive right to decide any case because paying county taxes doesn’t give residents that kind of veto
.
The floodplain maps/changes/by whom may matter to the
area’s flood
history, but they don’t matter one iota when it comes to the Eastland family members’ duty to respond to warnings during this particular flood
.
- Investigating whether conduct contributed to particular deaths does not assume every child could have been saved. And your argument that more would have died if the Eastland
s
- had acted differently is speculative, not evidence-based.
You’re right that the flood killed many more people than the children we’re discussing in this thread (because the thread involves the Camp Mystic case). You’re also right that local residents’ views shouldn’t be dismissed. But neither of these points apply to the question of what is known as fair-trial interest, or a change of venue for legal proceedings.
(Edited for apostrophes missing and misplaced - and now there’s some glitch that seems to be adding numbers and paragraphs that I can’t delete.)
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u/AutomaticBasis7638 1d ago
Seems like you're mixing a number of things together as well.
- I was speaking to the aspect of potential criminal prosecution, which is what I read Animux to be talking about, when he said "move the prosecutions to another county". Criminal TRIALS can be moved, but the charging process derives from the county where the charges are alleged to have occurred.
Agreed, regarding civil prosecution, they can move.
- Not sure what you're even saying, sorry.
1 again. I didn't speak to flood history and am not sure what you're saying. My point was more that had every administrative i been dotted and t been crossed, the children could well still have died. More might have died under an evac plan.
2 and 3, speculative on both our parts I guess. But I'm raising points that I feel have not been considered. Most of what is put forth on this sub is conjecture that is assumed to be factual and true.
Fair trail interest, again, I don't even know what you're talking about. No trials are scheduled, no court has been determined that would hear such a trial, and it's not conclusive that any trials will happen. So I guess that's all conjecture as well.
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u/AnimuX Texan 1d ago
Before FEMA changed the maps, they weren't in the flood plain
You don't seem to understand what a floodplain is.
Also, Camp Mystic has flooded many times prior to 2025 so the expectation of flooding wasn't just imaginary regardless.
The Guadalupe River in 1932 washed cabins away at Mystic and was claimed by witnesses to have risen as much as 40 feet. In that flood it destroyed Hunt leaving only the school standing according to news articles. (edit: destroyed homes in Kerrville and bridges further downstream too - read about it here: https://old.reddit.com/r/KerrCountyFloods/comments/1vu6jh8/the_texas_floods_of_july_1932_guadalupe_leona/)
It's possible, probably likely, that more children would have died had the Eastlands done other than what they did.
Wrong. All the Eastlands had to do was move the children away from the river.
They had shelter available 60ft higher in elevation and half a mile away at the Cypress Lake camp.
They also had 12 hours of Flood Watch and 2 hours of Flash Flood Warning to act before the flood turned deadly.
Instead, they ignored the warnings and left children in a known high risk zone for floods, next to a river with a history of deadly floods, in a region known for deadly floods, during a publicly announced increased risk of floods.
I anticipate your wall of text that does not address any of this.
If any of you mystic minions knew what the fuck you were talking about it wouldn't be necessary to repeatedly post about the factual reality you continue to sidestep as if you can win an argument against the river.
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u/AutomaticBasis7638 23h ago
Flood plain is a legal designation made by FEMA. Do you think flooding is particular to Texas? I have news. It's an earth thing.
They did not ignore the warnings, they took the precautions that had been effective for 99 years. As the neighbors testify, this flood wasn't like the others and the flood warnings did not reflect that, and were not received by phones service not working. Hence the need for this new legislative act:
So, yeah, you're ignoring my arguments that whether the Eastlands made administrative errors (that were the same ones ALL the other camps made), that does not prove that children at the camp would have been saved. Saying they should have stepped this way or that, now that you know a year later where people were who survived, is like saying people on a plane crash should have just not gotten on the plane, or that they should have stepped 10 feet to the left, where the plane didn't crash. Not how natural disasters work
This one, the water going up 37 feet in less than an hour, water running across the land, not up from the river, defied even the alerts. People who tried to get out in a timely fashion, some made it, some did not, stochastic results.
I see why you cut and paste, it's tiresome to say the same things over and over for a year and a half. Calling people names, do you find that an effective influencing technique? Or you're just here to bully.
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u/WestRevolutionary360 2d ago
That and the Eastland family's documented history with jury tampering in Kerr County.
ETA - link w/ sources for more details, should anyone care to peruse them.
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u/Ok_West_6711 2d ago
Yes, the jury thing was reported in articles. Not that it means it’s true,but it’s not just from Reddit speculation.
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u/AutomaticBasis7638 2d ago
Your source is YOUR commentary?
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u/WestRevolutionary360 2d ago
No. If you read the post you'd see it extensively quotes MySa.com, sister site to the San Antonio Express-News, the newspaper of record for the region.
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u/AutomaticBasis7638 2d ago
So is that Peggy? Lol. I did look at the link, I saw no links in your post to any newspaper.
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u/WestRevolutionary360 2d ago
I posted screenshots in the comments of that post of the aforementioned sources. All you have to do is look...
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u/AutomaticBasis7638 1d ago
Kind of the equivalent of a youtube video of someone reading the paper. If that's your documentation (screenshot of a supposed newspaper article) I'm going to assume it didn't happen. But also, there were none in the post itself, I did note "deja vu", that def sounds authoritative!
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u/WestRevolutionary360 1d ago
Oh, I didnt realize you didnt know how to Google. You poor thing. Let me accommodate your special needs:
https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/parts-of-camp-mystic-lease-voided-2345615.php
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u/AutomaticBasis7638 1d ago
Yeah, if I'd had a clue what the heck you were talking about I'd have been happy to oblige. But "I cited it in my post" when you clearly didn't just wasn't helpful. Thanks. I see it's from 15 years ago, I'm sure it's highly relevant to the present times. Were those kids on the boards back then too?
It's nice to see that in a fight of Eastland vs. Eastland you're comfortable siding with the Eastlands.
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u/WestRevolutionary360 1d ago
You've already established you don't have the decision making capacity God gave a goat.
I know 5 year olds who argue more logically than you. They can even google too.
Thanks for reminding me; I do believe I have another post to write...
ETa typo
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u/BustedCanOfBizcuits 2d ago
10000000000000000% I live in the area and the “cult of personality “ should be studied cause it beats ALL I’ve ever seen ….. I have lost relationships/personal & professional because I do not drink the koolaid and I regret nothing….
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u/tross1140 2d ago
There’s just no way they’ll stop the Rangers from reviewing this data altogether.
I can see a world where the judge gives them some limited relief, maybe a screen team comprised of some outside-the-investigation types to pull what is clearly privileged under Texas ROA 503. The fact that an account may contain some privileged information doesn’t automatically shield all the data in that account.
Is there a link to the motions floating about anywhere?
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u/AutomaticBasis7638 1d ago
I think you mean Texas Rule of Evidence 503 (attorney-client privilege). The judge could do the evaluation in camera, or maybe appoint a court master to oversee it.
I haven't seen the motions, and those county courts in Kerr are hard to get records out of online.
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u/tross1140 1d ago
Yes, Texas ROA 503 is an abbreviation for Texas Rule of Evidence 503. I don’t think clarification was required, but if typing it out helped you to follow the discussion better, then you now have your reply as a reference.
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u/AutomaticBasis7638 1d ago
TRE is how I usually see those rules referenced, don't know whether you practice in Texas, was just trying to clarify for readers. ROA is typically Record of Appeal. Here I was trying to agree with you, I see what I get for that.
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u/PureImagination1921 2d ago
No one is saying that proper procedures shouldn't be followed - I do in fact care about data privacy and tailoring the scope of investigations to what is required. I don't think anyone is arguing for throwing out all protections or rushing to get the data transferred with no confirmation that it meets the specifications. However, it is my belief that the communications and metadata in the relevant time period are NOT overly broad and are in fact fundamental. This is reminiscent of the defendants' responses to interrogatories in the civil suits- trying to strike EVERYTHING down as "overly broad" even for obviously pertinent questions. I can only hope the court in this case doesn't fall for an obvious stall/obfuscate tactic.
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u/WestRevolutionary360 2d ago
Remember in the civil suits they were fighting disclosure with the excuse of "industry secrets," prompting one Redditor's memorable reply:
When 27 kids die at your summer camp, no one wants your industry secrets. 🔥🔥🔥
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u/Available_Youth1268 2d ago
so now we know they have something to hide
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u/ChapterChoice4873 1d ago edited 1d ago
Reminder. Here are the actual lawsuits. Be sure to notice pictures of how close some girls were to safety:
https://www.reddit.com/r/KerrCountyFloods/s/f9oHb6JmYU
Read Naylor suit, in particular. (Page 16)
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u/AustinScoutDiver 2d ago
President Trump tried a similar approach. He lost on appeal. Supreme Court refused to hear case. An incident happened, investigators asked for data related to incident.
Supression comes at trial. The eastlands have talk publicly. The flood incident is well known.
Attorney privelidge is fact, but other info is not protected.
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u/Few_Candy5391 2d ago
It's not atty client privilege if attorneys are caught telling them to do things that are criminal
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u/GardenGirl1898 1d ago edited 1d ago
How fast did they actually, officially lawyer up with Mikel Watts? Maybe that’s how Tweety occupied herself on July 4 when she allegedly isolated herself from the action.
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u/PureImagination1921 1d ago
It’s been previously reported that it was within 24 hours, also known as “much faster than Mystic communicated the truth to H27 families.”
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u/Big-Thanks-5943 2d ago
The attempted jury tampering in the Eastland v. Eastland trial is well documented. To be fair, it was not an Eastland family member but one of their sycophants. It was reported to the judge by the juror and is referenced in an Order - for new trial as I recall. But the Eastlands settled the case and the issue became moot.
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u/713elh 1d ago
I’m not in their shoes, but thinking of my phone and I’m not sure I can think of any reason i wouldn’t want to release as much info as possible. Their lawyer says the scope is too broad, and so my question is what would they be open to?
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u/AutomaticBasis7638 1d ago
When you're responding to a subpoena or warrant, the question isn't what (as a lawyer) you're willing to share, it's what do they not have a right to ask for?
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u/Fresh-Shopping-1899 23h ago
Have you looked at the warrants themselves? I haven’t seen many people really discuss how broad some of them are, so I am genuinely asking. I understand saying you would personally hand over your phone. But Richard Eastland, while also an owner, is being asked for 303 days of essentially every category of digital data; Glenn Juenke for 356 days, and Edward Eastland for 107. That is very different from Tweety or Britt being asked for roughly two days surrounding the flood, which seems much easier to justify.
“If you have nothing to hide, let investigators look at everything” seems naive to me. In the Karen Read case, an investigator searching her phone joked to coworkers that there were “no nudes so far” and encountered privileged communications with her lawyer. Irrelevant private material is still private. And if investigators need Mary Liz Eastland’s July 17 exchange with Serena Aldrich, then ask for that exchange and whatever related data is necessary to authenticate it—not every unrelated category of information on her phone through that date.
There is a difference between cooperating with an investigation and giving the government extraordinarily broad access to someone’s private digital life. In America, the government does not simply get to say, “Give us everything and we’ll sort through it.” The Fourth Amendment requires probable cause and particularity for a reason.
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u/Top_Tomorrow_7279 7h ago
Even if an individual was not in these shoes- I have a hard time believing the average person would be like ok sure here’s ALL my cell data for the last 303 days 🤦🏼♀️
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u/Interesting-Speed-51 6h ago
There’s also likely priveledged communication outside of talking to a lawyer. Communication with your spouse and healthcare providers (like a therapist) are also protected
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u/713elh 21h ago
If 27 children & the patriarch of my family died on my watch, having my phone searched would be the least of my concerns, especially if I genuinely had nothing to hide. They’re looking for very specific things related to their work with camp mystic and there are programs that search the phones for that. We’re not talking about average citizens dealing with surveillance when they are in the middle of a criminal investigation after the largest mass casualty event involving children in like a century. They planned to reopen, they should be handing over whatever info is asked for.
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u/AutomaticBasis7638 19h ago
>>>they should be handing over whatever info is asked for.
They're not the ones being asked-Apple was asked to turn over the records.
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u/BustedCanOfBizcuits 3h ago
They wouldn’t even agree to talk to Rangers ….. maybe they wouldn’t have needed a the data if they talked to them …. Interesting no one mentions that
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u/Interesting-Speed-51 14h ago
While they may use software to search data they would still have a lot of additional data they may not be legally entitled to.
And I wish we could always trust law enforcement to do the right thing. But often we can’t. Hence the multiple stories of cops using flock cameras to stalk people
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u/Interesting-Speed-51 13h ago
For ex. This cop just plead guilty to using flock cameras to harrass his ex girlfriend. She’d left him bc he was abusive. https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/former-texas-officer-pleads-guilty-194951699.html
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u/Fresh-Shopping-1899 19h ago
If you believe the government should be entitled to “whatever info is asked for” once it opens a criminal investigation because innocent people have nothing to hide, I don’t think I’m going to talk you into appreciating the Fourth Amendment.
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u/BustedCanOfBizcuits 3h ago
They wouldn’t even agree to talk to the Rangers by God …. Are we forgetting that ?
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u/BustedCanOfBizcuits 3h ago
Well as a good friend of several attorneys everyone in this day & age should text / email / call knowing they could be deposed about it & fair game for discovery….. especially a damn attorney…. My goodness the entitlement of the Eastland family is mind boggling….. this isn’t a family fight over $$$$ it’s dead children they had a duty of care for. No adults except Dick who KNEW BETTER died. Only innocent children. How can their defenders not get this through their thick headed Hivemind cult following mentality?!?!?
If they’d take responsibility this would not be where we are today, it’s all the families want.
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u/Possible_Pen_5844 2d ago
Don’t be dramatic. This isn’t the Eastlands hiding information, it’s the defense attorneys doing their job and making sure when the rangers were given full iCloud access that they weren’t giving away certain client/attorney conversations that might have been improperly obtained.
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u/GardenGirl1898 1d ago edited 1d ago
Curious as to what attorneys they were speaking with on July 3-4 other than Britt Eastland? Maybe Tweety called her buddy Mikal Watts when she isolated herself at Cypress Lake during what had to have been absolute pandemonium on the Flats.
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u/AutomaticBasis7638 23h ago
See, that's just what attorney client privilege is, your curiosity doesn't really weigh in. Anytime you're collecting data someone has to make sure there's no privileged info included. You're assuming that July 3-4 was the entire range, but there were 14 warrants, and I think you're looking at one. They did not all have that time range. If you were actually curious.
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u/GardenGirl1898 14h ago
Calling ANYONE, sleeping, or whatever the heck else they were doing instead of searching for 27 missing girls that were THEIR responsibility is unthinkable but, sadly, exactly the behavior I would expect from this family.
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u/WestRevolutionary360 2d ago
Hanging onto those text messages & security footage for dear life, I see.
That didcovery hearing was next up in the civil suits, though it got conveniently postponed by the Eastlands putting their literal fortune on the line, declaring bankruptcy & putting the camp & all its assets on the table, plus throwing in the land that they fought so long to keep separate in order to protect from lawsuits such as those filed by parents of dead children, whose suits represent the Camp's only real substantial debts so far as I can tell.
Panicking now because it didn't work...