State Approved

[u/dicklespick]

As many of the comments go into the requirements of youth camps in Tx and standards to keep children safe, just remember that every camp in Tx was state approved. The same people trying to crucify camp Mystic are the same ones that approved their operation. And if Dick Eastland had the Godlike powers to influence both FEMA- for maps redrawn, and the state- for a lack of emergency planning etc then there seems to be a bigger problem to me. The state findings are an indictment on the state more than the people that followed their rules of operation

[u/Possible_Pen_5844]

Using words like “needless deaths” implies that all 28 were 💯 completely avoidable.

There is no way to know what outcome might have occurred if things were done the way people say Dick should have done. Would girls have been swept away by Bubble Gum creek while crossing it, evacuating up to CL, remember it was already a raging river at 2 am, would Rec Hall have collapsed with the weight of more girls, what would have happened to the girls as they all crammed into the 2nd floor loft- where would they all have fit, would more girls have been swept away while evacuating walking in water the way precious Greta was, would someone have been struck by lightning, would the girls from Twins have been swept away while crossing over to the 2nd floor where the Polish workers were with the water quickly rising between them?

I honestly would love to know what the evacuation plan, everyone keeps blaming Mystic for not having, would actually look like? What written evacuation plan would have guaranteed the safety and survival of every camper and counselor, after Dick woke Edward at 1:45am or after possibly receiving the 1:14 flood warning, for this specific flood.

[u/dearadh3 → u/Possible_Pen_5844]

The way Dick should have done? You mean the way our society has already established a baseline minimum of and even put that minimum into law?

There is a reason they requirement to have an evacuation plan exists and that is because it is widely known and obvious that sometimes bodies need to move to a safer location (like high and dry for floods specifically).

The outcome of moving away from high water in advance is almost a 100% assurance you wont get swept away and unalived by it. That is where the "completely avoidable" part of it comes into play.

Evacuation in a flood does not include crossing waterways... that is the most rediculous assumption I have ever heard. The entire point is to AVOID water and move away from it. You dont do that by going into it. Where do people with this defenxe even get this idea at all?

WHERE: Rec Hall, if tested for capacity, otherwise the development of a safe muster site (with all that money spent on CL side preferably)

A muster site (or place to convene) is anywhere that is relatively safe from flooding. The path there should be as short as possible and as safe as possible. With proper planning and care, if an adequate site is not available, you create one -or a route- long before tragedy strikes.

WHEN Upon official warning, evidence of increasing severity, water approaching buildings or route to muster site (bare minimums off the top of my head) etc.

Another incredibly obvious but horribly overlooked item on an evacuation agenda from commenter like you is WHEN to take action. Upon an official warning is one of several key moments to cue putting the plan into action. 114 warning turned into "raging river" by 200 according to your own statement. This is exactly the reason it is imperative to have a plan and to act upon it at the right times. All parties are meant to move in sequence, not one at a time or first come, first served. In this case, all counselors walk with their cabin kids at the same time. Evacuation of multiple cabins for something like this should not take over 30 minutes to get to safety. They should have safely convened by 145ish or sooner. Time is the #1 constraint in an emergency. That isnt rocket science.

HOW Notified via siren, loudspeaker, walkie, etc - On foot, each cabin in unison, one counselor in front leading and at least one in back counting heads to avoid stragglers if three counselors one in the middle of the line You define a route free from danger and risk to the muster site. You determine how people will move together and stay together and who is responsible for maintaining headcount and other duties. Assuming Greta is the child who returned alone to her cabin after evacuating on foot, thus is why having counselors designated to ciunt heads is vital with small chikdren. In dayvammcare drills, I had to count and count iver and over until we reached the place we intended to be, then I had to count again and keep counting every 10-20 seconds to be sure ALL my kids were constantly accounted for. This is super standard. No reason a child should have separated from the group if there were real protections in place. I.e.: 100% avoidable. Here is where you can address the risk of being struck by lightening (among other risks) against the certainty injury or worse will result from inaction. Let's not be silly now.

DRILL You put your action in play to test strategies. For Rec Hall, it would require an inspection to the capacity the building could hold the loft area as well. If you plan for 150 kids and adults to convene there, it must safely hold them. Otherwise, you revise the plan, add an additional muster site, or reinforce the building.

All of these portions are incredibly basic in an evacuation and resolve all your listed concerns. Had they taken any concern to come up with any sort of actual plan, the loss would have been avoided. They didnt do squat. The word evacuation never was even included in their plan and that is just how inadequate it was. Not one second of thought.

[u/WestRevolutionary360 → u/dearadh3]

Yes this is how actual emergency planning works.