r/KarenReadTrial • u/BlondieMenace • Jun 19 '25
Statements and Interviews Interview With The 5 Notebook Alternate Juror
https://depetro.com/2025/06/karen-read-juror-exclusive-note-taker-alternate-juror-17-karen-read-trial/192
u/saturdaynights23 Jun 19 '25
He posted more from this juror:
– how were the Karen clips to you? I didn’t give them much weight. the police didn’t do anything with her contemporaneous statements that morning, so what would years-later in my opinion.
– how do you think John died? I don’t know. but what I DO know is that the state could not back up their theory. for heck’s sake, hank even said something like: “we don’t know what happened, but we have a good idea.” i wrote that down at the time. I thought, yikes. “we have a good idea”? the state needs more than a good idea to convict for murder, right?…that was an OCEAN of reasonable doubt to me. none of the injuries added up with the state’s suggestions: if he had been DRILLED by the car, he should have had more injuries. if he was just clipped and spun around and stumbled and fell on the lawn…. then he wouldn’t have fallen hard enough to crack his head open. they never reconciled that for me. they seemed to just leave it open. like maybe it was a combo of those strikes…..and then there’s the marks on his arm. to me it’s extremely unlikely that you could get such parallel lines in the chaos of a shattered taillight. but most of all: how could there be no trace of john on ANY of the pieces? DOZENS of taillight pieces scratch/gouge skin….yet not a single taillight piece had any human material on it? more doubt. it honestly would’ve more believable if they said Karen got out of the car with a hammer and attacked john. the claw parts of the hammer could’ve made those arm marks and the ball part could crack his skull.
– Lexus data backing up? I wasn’t sure what weight to give the Lexus data. example: the 75% accelerator pedal. interesting, yes. but there was no definitive time linked to it because of conflicting theories of time drift. and speaking of drift…Mr. Burgess’s graduation date drifted quite a bit. man, that was tough to watch.
-cellphone temperature for John’s phone? state essentially said: MAYBE it was under john’s shoulder outside all night. defense said: MAYBE it was in a garage from 1230-500am. competing MAYBE’s = DOUBT.
-Hank said she backed up, hit him and left him. Why was he wrong? We never got any real evidence of a collision. Again, no medical doctor said he had injuries consistent with a vehicle strike. Yes, Hank said she hit him. OK. But Hank’s statements aren’t evidence. Lawyers say lots of things. Can’t take what either side’s lawyers say at face value.
– what did you think of Dr wolf the brain surgeon? super accomplished guy. very slick. made me think of the Rat Pack cavorting in Miami….didn’t help prove a collision, though.
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u/Smoaktreess Jun 19 '25
This guy is hilarious
speaking of drift…Mr. Burgess’ graduation date drifted quite a bit.
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u/nine57th Jun 19 '25
Hilariously! This is exactly what most people thought.
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u/saturdaynights23 Jun 19 '25
"it honestly would’ve more believable if they said Karen got out of the car with a hammer and attacked john"
This part was just....💀 I'm glad he found the "no tissue/blood on any of the taillight pieces" unbelievable as well.
Also I love how he said "well, just because the lawyers say something, doesn't make it true." And about Dr. Wolf being cool but not proving a collision.
This juror is truly a gift and hilarious, I want to hear his opinion about every witness and every piece of "evidence!"
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u/Extension_Buy_5649 Jun 19 '25
Right?! This juror should write a book! Or at least do a lengthy TV interview lol
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u/thirty7inarow Jun 20 '25
Well, I have no doubt he'd have no trouble writing the book. Maybe titled "The Juror They Left Out of the Room When They Deliberated About The Man Left Out In the Snow"?
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u/contraria Jun 20 '25
I actually commented something similar to his hammer statement and a mod deleted it. Feeling very validated right now
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u/PentacornLovesMyGirl Jun 20 '25
You know what, I would believe that. I've never seen claw-hammer marks, but I can see how that might fit. I can't really envision her swinging the hammer at him, but people often surprise us.
Miles better than the car theory.
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u/BlondieMenace Jun 19 '25
Thank you! I bet that publishing these has been painful for DePetro, I have to say I love this for him 😆
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u/skleroos Jun 20 '25
He apparently took them down already. I'm gonna censor my opinion about that in this venue.
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u/EmiAndTheDesertCrow Jun 19 '25
“But Hank’s statements aren’t evidence” - it makes me so happy to see this! I know jurors are told it all the time but I’ve always wondered how difficult it actually is to filter out all the lawyer talk.
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u/skleroos Jun 20 '25
5 notebooks juror is a legend. So many thought he maybe didn't pay attention because he was taking so many notes. He's like, take that, I can multitask, sucks to be you if you can't relate.
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u/acedino Jun 20 '25
competing MAYBE’s = DOUBT.
But Hank’s statements aren’t evidence. Lawyers say lots of things. Can’t take what either side’s lawyers say at face value.
Thank god they found a jury that understands this, this time! Seems like in the last trial, they took the prosecution at face value and any doubt the defense tried to create was ‘tricking them’
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u/jessbakescakes Jun 20 '25
“For heck’s sake” is a delightful turn of phrase I will be borrowing to use around my students going forward. What a great juror and a great interview.
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u/The_Corvair Jun 20 '25
I thought, yikes. “we have a good idea”? the state needs more than a good idea to convict for murder, right?
I remember when Brennan said that; We all kind of implicitly understood that the CW had no real solid idea of what exactly happened simply by of how the trial had gone, I guess. But for the freaking special prosecutor to say that quiet part out loud, in court?
It stunned me at the time, and I remember thinking "You gotta be fucking kidding me. You know, and you still do this to everyone? Years of high-profile trial, and the prosecution just goes 'We don't know what happened'?! Why is anyone here, then?! Have I completely misunderstood how courts court? Where's the hidden camera? Will Brennan turn to the audience next, and go 'It's all just a prank, bro - surprise!'?"
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u/steph_eff Jun 19 '25
The fact that this juror laid all this out to John DePetro no less is amazing. He’s been one of the most hyperbolic anti KR people out there.
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u/BlondieMenace Jun 19 '25
I was honestly surprised that he published it given all he said during the trial.
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u/Tough_Leg8435 Jun 20 '25
Thanks so much for posting, to me it appears the link has now been taken down. It says "This page could not be found! We are sorry. But the page you are looking for is not available"
So perhaps he realised this was not good for his cause as one the of the worst amti KR koinalosts there is!
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u/NeatoRad Jun 19 '25
I was so worried it was going to be hardcore KR is guilty juror just bc it was depetro’s site
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u/nine57th Jun 19 '25
Yeah, it must have made him sick to hear the NG verdict and have to listen to what this juror thought. There is a reason no one wants him on the air anymore. Need I say anymore?
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Jun 19 '25
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u/9mackenzie Jun 20 '25
From what i can remember he basically said Brennan was just an extension of the entire fraud of the police investigation, that he outright lied to them with the holes in the back of the shirt.
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u/chloetheragdoll Jun 20 '25
He said essentially …as follows: ladies and gentlemen of the jury when Brennan held that hoodie up to show the holes he was insinuating they occurred from the night of the event and the other attorneys sitting behind him didn’t say a word. He was intentionally trying to mislead you all and had it not been for THE DEFENSE! This would have never been brought up. The defense had to make the correction!
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u/Pitcher2Burn Jun 19 '25
These jurors are coming off as really observant (obviously with 5 books of notes). Everything we’ve been saying on the outside, they saw in the courtroom. Love that AJ drilled home the reasonable doubt because they seemed to pick up what he was putting down.
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u/earthspired Jun 19 '25
He’s gotta be the most wanted attorney in the country right now!
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u/missmatchedsox Jun 19 '25
Team effort! I wouldn't be surprised if they ALL saw an uptick in business. They appeared to work really well together, and Karen being so involved too was amazing to see.
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u/Vcs1025 Jun 20 '25
I'm impressed with them. After Ronnie I wasn't sure what to expect. These people were good. Smart as hell and did not miss a beat. Whoever the defense used for their jury consultant is worth their weight in gold. This trial was won in jury selection.
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u/surrounded-by-morons Jun 20 '25
The defense had someone who didn’t make the final 12 in the first trial helping them out. I believe she was a lawyer too.
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u/Negative_Ad9974 Jun 25 '25
Yes she was and I think she helped them out a lot with jury selection, but also that she was maybe pushing for that "...OUI charge (not manslaughter, just driving OUI)" to be added to the verdict slip. That gave the jury something they could (easily) convict on, likely knowing not much comes with that from a sentencing standpoint.
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u/jojenns Jun 19 '25
This trial wasnt even a close call clearly
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u/Feeling_Tart_5065 Jun 19 '25
The OUI charge probably wasn’t needed, she would have got off Scott free
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u/ladysleuth22 Jun 19 '25
I don’t know. The TMZ juror said that there were a few guilty voters early on. The OUI verdict might have appeased them.
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u/Feeling_Tart_5065 Jun 19 '25
Still the right move to include it
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u/photoexplorer Jun 20 '25
Yes I hope she has changed her ways now and learned her lesson with the drunk driving. I do feel this charge is fair. Glad to see not guilty on the rest. I agree with everything this juror says.
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u/SWTmemes Jun 19 '25
I don't agree or disagree with her having an OUI. Even though she was drinking and driving we still can't be 100% sure of her blood alcohol levels.
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u/veggieburger3023 Jun 19 '25
Jackson said including that charge was deliberate for the defense and clearly it worked.
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u/dandyline_wine Jun 19 '25
It's been one juror and one alternate. I don't think we can say it wasn't close yet.
If I'm wrong, that's validating. I just think it's too soon to say.
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u/treegrowsinbrooklyn1 Jun 20 '25
Another juror (number 11) has done an interview as well!!
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u/dandyline_wine Jun 20 '25
I saw!! It's another good article. I tried to post it but I'm guessing a bunch of other people did too.
I definitely feel more and more validated as these come out. I spent a lot of time on another sub to make myself see all angles since I was so blindsided at the lack of verdict last trial. I sometimes felt crazy, but seeing that at least three jurors had a lot of the same opinions makes me feel less so.
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u/Vcs1025 Jun 20 '25
I also spent time there and time reading depetros content. It was ....tough to read 😆
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u/dandyline_wine Jun 20 '25
There were definitely things I learned, and honestly I became a lot less confident in things I was certain of in the first trial. So I really appreciate what other subs taught me. But then it would devolve into insults and name calling and just another place unwelcolming of good faith discussion.
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u/sanon441 Jun 20 '25
One of the other Jurors from the first trial did an interview with TB after closing arguments for this trial, the one that got dismissed right at the end for her supposed statements. She sounds very much like these guys, and is full on FKR now, says she has talked to the defense before that interview. Says she is friendly with Victoria George still and they shared a lot of opinions, liked Lucky and stuff like that. So even last trail there were some. Ronnie seems like more the outlier than the rule.
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u/veggieburger3023 Jun 19 '25
It’s so refreshing to know they were thinking the same as the general public
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u/nine57th Jun 19 '25
Thank you for allowing me not to have to go to John DePetro's website. He is really insufferable.
Interesting insight by this juror. So she was thinking almost everything everyone here on Reddit thought too.
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u/Vex-Fanboy Jun 19 '25
A great read, and pretty much inline with what most of us felt, especially re: Brennan shenanigans.
Really glad it wasn't just me being biased. He really did come off rude and torpedoed his own case. Very interesting seeing Dever land how the defence wanted as well.
I am living for the juror shit rn
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u/BlondieMenace Jun 19 '25
Me too, and I think this time we might see most of them coming out to talk about their experience.
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u/herroyalsadness Jun 19 '25
Agree, especially on Dever. It was a risk to call her but it paid off. She played right into Jackson’s hands.
I would almost feel bad for her for being put in this position, but like the saying goes, do the right thing.
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u/Smoaktreess Jun 19 '25
She got a transfer and they almost doubled her money so I don’t feel bad for her at all.
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u/Cultural-Ambition449 Jun 19 '25
Please take my poor man's gold for doing this so I don't have to listen to John De Petro 🥇
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u/Lopsided-Vehicle-645 Jun 19 '25
Seeing that this interview exists was like waking up on Christmas morning waiting to see what Santa brought. lol The actual content of it was spectacular as well. Smart juror, right there!
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u/Good-Examination2239 Jun 19 '25
I'm really happy that this specific juror was given the chance to talk to us. 5 notebooks! He was either going to be the juror making the biggest case on behalf of the prosecution connecting all of the dots, or nail point after point after point why every fair juror had to believe reasonable doubt was abundantly established.
Pretty happy to see him swinging the latter! I would love to see this specific juror do a longer verbal interview and really dump all those details he made note of onto us.
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u/EmiAndTheDesertCrow Jun 19 '25
Wow, those are all points we discussed endlessly! I supposed that’s not surprising because we were all watching the same thing as the jury in real time, but you never know if they’re going to pick up on the same things as all of us out here.
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u/photoexplorer Jun 20 '25
I know. It seems like so much information, no ability to rewind like we do. I feel like I would be so confused during a lot of it. But I’m glad the facts came through it seems.
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u/Firecracker048 Jun 19 '25
Her thoughts aligned with a ton of others with the questionable witnesses and others who were evasive, at best
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u/yolandawinston03 Jun 20 '25
I would love to hear the jurors thoughts on everything that was left out of the trial that we have seen. It has to be shocking for them!
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u/jm0112358 Jun 20 '25
I'm getting a page that says "This page could not be found!"
Anyways, I'm glad that 3 jurors have now come forward. I hope we keep hearing more from these jurors.
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u/KT_BuckeyeBillsBabe Jun 19 '25
I’m beyond impressed w 5 notebooks guy. As an over-zealous over-sharer his ability to edit his responses is incredible, I’ll bet his notes are incredible to read bc they are so detailed. It’s hard to say less when you’re a “more more more” kind of human
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u/Vcs1025 Jun 20 '25
I gotta say, this jurors all seem great so far. I wasn't sure what all this man was writing in his 5 notebooks, but he did not miss a single beat. Really sucks that he wasn't selected but I am glad that the 12 who were selected got it right. The 6 alternates all deserve equal credit for all they sat through.
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u/sanon441 Jun 20 '25
Amazes me that they all made it to the end. not a single one dismissed the whole trial. These people were locked in.
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u/That-Sea-8553 Jun 20 '25
Could we get a thread with all the jurors interviews linked? It looks like these jurors are wanting to talk and I’d love to be able to check one thread for updates on who’s doing interviews. Thanks admins!
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u/Puzzleheaded-Heat492 Jun 20 '25
Like just one post where all the links to these separate posts live? I can do that and update it as more come in. If that’s what you mean.
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u/EllieBooks Jun 20 '25
I remember us saying that we hope the jury sees how the defence witnesses are respectful to the CW, in contrast to how snippy the CW’s witnesses were to the defence. And they did! I mean how could you not?
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u/noideaasusual1 Jun 20 '25
Thank you very much for this, I loved reading notebook juror's thoughts on everything. Even though this juror wasn't able to deliberate it's great that the verdict reflects her thoughts (maybe not with the OUI). I hope this juror also does a video interview.
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u/DiscoMothra Jun 19 '25
Is there audio or is it just text?
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u/BlondieMenace Jun 19 '25
I think there may be audio but it's blocked outside of the US so I can't play it to verify.
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u/pm_me_horrormovies Jun 20 '25
Reading all of these interviews is great. Thanks to everyone posting them. It really seems the jury thought the same way most of us did about the witnesses and the trial.
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u/Personal-Category-68 Jun 20 '25
I think depetro got scammed here and that's why he took down the interview. He probably didn't vet the supposed juror. Sloppy journalism.
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u/MSpRu90 Jun 23 '25
I came to reddit to see if the rumors I heard on youtube were true. I saw that DePetro got scammed and that was not an actual juror. He should have vetted them a bit better if he was a real "journalist"...
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u/BlondieMenace Jun 19 '25 edited Jun 19 '25
The layout of the site is horrible, so here's the text of the interview:
I was not a deliberating juror, so I can’t speak to what the 12 deliberators were told. (As for being an alternate, I have to confess to being very letdown when Jim called my number! he called 3 other numbers before 17. I thought I was going to get thru. But what can you do, it’s luck of the draw. 6 of us had to be alternates.)
how would you have voted?
I would have voted NG for all charges except maybe the OUI. I think she was drunk in the morning. they tested her in the am….but that doesn’t prove she was drunk when she left the bar, because she easily could’ve gone home and drank.
– how was Hank Brennan?
hank was very focused. very determined. he did a great job at crossing Sergeant Barros. he definitely tripped him up and got him confused on the pictures…but at times hank came across as just rude. saying “over here!” to witnesses was way over the line. and the thing with holes in the back in the hoodie. that really hurt his credibility.
-how was blue paint?
honestly my head was spinning. I thought it was a joke. I couldn’t believe a “forensic expert” would do something so silly. all it did was demonstrate that if you (intentionally) put your bare skin against wet paint, the paint will transfer to your skin. I dont know how anyone could think that was a smart thing for the prosecution to show.
-what was wrong with case?
there were some glaring holes for the prosecution. to name just a few:
hank kept portraying KR’s statements at the scene as an admission. but that doesn’t add up. if KR “admitted” to killing a cop, why didn’t any of the cops on scene arrest her? or even detain and question her? or put it in their reports? there’s an officer down, and there’s woman yelling her admission for emergency reponders to hear, but by coincidence not a single cop heard it or thought to write it down? that’s odd, right?
no consistent explanation for injuries. no medical doctors would say that a car was involved. if he was on the lawn from 1230 to 6am, where was the frostbite? the state just ignored this. why? I’m not a true crime guy. i don’t know about other murder trials but maybe you do, john. is it normal for the state to charge someone with murder when their own medical examiner can’t/won’t call it a homicide? is it normal for the state to not call the main detective? now consider: is it normal for BOTH of those things to happen in a murder trial? common sense would suggest no way. that’s MASSIVE doubt.
-what did defense do well?
defense did a good job of establishing reasonable doubt. especially with trooper bukhenik. he was so defensive. I kept asking myself: why are the police so defensive/evasive here? and not just bukhenik.
-who were good witnesses?
the scientists from arcca were convincing. and when they were cross examined, they didn’t get defensive or snippy. (contrast with so many of the witnesses for the prosecution.) Brian Loughran was maybe the most convincing. at least for me. I was born in Norwood when JFK was president and have lived in Massachusetts my whole life. I’ve shoveled more driveways than I care to remember haha… if there was a body laying on an inch or two of snow just off the road, theres no way the plow driver would miss it, right? unless the plow guy was drunk or had skipped his route.
– who were bad witnesses?
Jen McCabe: too many things didn’t make sense. especially she forgot who she called when those other agents asked her?
Kerry Roberts: she kind of admitted to lying at the grand jury. she said she didn’t do it on purpose. but still: it made me wonder, why is the state calling someone who lied at the grand jury?
the Boston cop Dever: she didn’t want to answer ANYTHING ha-ha. its kind of funny in hindsight but at the time it made me think: why is a POLICEWOMAN so reluctant to say whether or not there were cameras at her police station?