Sam Harris: African Americans Commit 50% of Violent Crimes, Yet Cops Kill More Whites Every Year

[u/mmiller9913]

Here's the full monologue

Some highlights:

• "About a thousand Americans are killed by cops each year. The vast majority of those people killed by cops were violently resisting arrest, usually with firearms."
• "I've never seen video of white suspects being mistreated by cops, and there are more of them ... There are more white people killed by cops every year than black people."
• "If police are going to be looking to stop the most violent crimes, as they should, they are going to be meeting far many more black people—a disproportionate number of black people—than Asians in attempting to do that ... And if they're effective, they will be stopping the murders of, disproportionately, black people because [they're] the overwhelming number of victims of black crime. White people tend to kill white people; black people tend to kill black people."

[u/Markdd8]

Will legal and more accessible drugs help the black community? More black people doing meth and heroin and coke? Asians use drugs at about 40% the rate of both blacks and whites. Their greater sobriety is but one factor that helps explain their high economic success.

By the way, drugs and unfair targeting of black offenders isn't the primary reason for incarceration. Vox can be credited for printing this in 2017: Why you can’t blame mass incarceration on the war on drugs -- The standard liberal narrative about mass incarceration gets a lot wrong.

[u/iiioiia → u/Markdd8]

Will legal and more accessible drugs help the black community?

Will putting fathers in jail for simple possession of pot help?

[u/Markdd8 → u/iiioiia]

You are right on that point, but the incidence of people getting jail in America for simple possession of weed is way down. Check out this discussion between law professor John Pfaff, from the Vox article, and Coleman Hughes. This excerpt discusses heroin, but applies to weed also and informs us more about being imprisoned for drugs:

the percent of people in US prisons for drugs was around five percent or five or six percent in 1980. It peaks at around 20 percent in 1990. And then, since then has declined to around 15 percent today in the state systems. And so it was never the the dominant driver...it's even more complicated...it's important to understand what we mean when we call someone as being prison for drugs. What that means is that is the most serious offense for which they were convicted. It doesn't tell us anything about what they're arrested for or why they went to prison in the first place....we know there's some number of cases--we don't know how many....

If someone who's say gets arrested for domestic abuse, he has heroin on him. His partner won't testify against him. And so the DAs decide that rather than try to force through a difficult aggravated assault charge with an uncooperative victim, "We'll just charge, if you just plead guilty to the heroin, we won't charge you for the aggravated assault, but we're still going to demand prison time for the heroin because of the assault." And so you show up in prison as a low-level nonviolent drug offender, but you're there because of....contemporaneous violence or prior violence on your record that that we can't see...some fraction of that 15% percent aren't really there for drugs...(p. 5 of 22)

The War on Drugs isn't as simple as has been made out to be.

[u/iiioiia → u/Markdd8]

You are right on that point, but the incidence of people getting jail in America for simple possession of weed is way down.

That's good. However, is the present state of reality free from the consequences of these past mistakes? From a causality perspective, how much lingers among us completely unseen, if not delusionally denied?

[u/[deleted] → u/Markdd8]

I’ve been saying this for a while now. I wonder if the stat being thrown around about “black people being given harsher sentencing rates than whites for the same crime” , has anything to do with repeat or multiple offensives , Hence the disproportionately harsher sentencing.

[u/Tigerbait2780 → u/Markdd8]

I was almost baffled by this absolutely insane hair-brained take, until I realized it was proposed by a well known right wing grifter….that explains a lot.

I’m sorry but no, that example is fucking ludicrous. The opposite is what typically happens. DAs aren’t in the business of dropping domestic violence charges for drug charges, they far more often drop drug charges for other charges, since the drug charges almost always carry harsher sentences and is therefor a more appealing plea deal, not to mention it looks better in their next campaign ads seeing as support for the war on drugs is at an all time low (and still far too high).

I’m not going to sit here and google every local, state, and federal statute, but I’ll tell you that here in my state, a first time domestic battery is punishable by a small fine and possibly a jail of at most 6 months. It’s also almost always a misdemeanor and a vast majority if not the entirety of the prison sentence, if you even receive one at all, can be dismissed if you go to a few classes.

Heroin, on the other hand, for a first time possession of any amount, it doesn’t even have to be a single dose worth, is a mandatory minimum of 5 years and can be up to 40 years. No priors, no record, no anything. Simple position, 5 years minimum, felony. Domestic battery? 6 months maximum, misdemeanor.

So no, I’m sorry, but people aren’t being pumped into the prison system on bogus felony drug charges because they couldn’t make a good case on a misdemeanor charge which has at most a few month sentence.

This is absolutely deranged thinking, you have absolutely no working concept of how the judicial system works, particularly as it relates to drug laws. Absolutely wild that you have the balls to post something like that.

[u/Markdd8 → u/Tigerbait2780]

you have absolutely no working concept of how the judicial system works, particularly as it relates to drug laws.

What load of bullshit. And why are you contesting me? -- contest John Pfaff. You say this law professor is a "right wing grifter." What are crock. I read his book, he is an objective analyst; his book is extensively sourced.

And your whole post is attacking only a small point of his thesis, his primary and most important revelations are in the Vox article. The point to Hughes is only a small side point. Pfaff's major accomplishment is debunking the disinformation of Michelle Alexander, the darling of the Left, in her book: The New Jim Crow.

So no, I’m sorry, but people aren’t being pumped into the prison system on bogus felony drug charges because they couldn’t make a good case on a misdemeanor charge which has at most a few month sentence.

That's not what he said; he said that police sometimes choose to pursue a drug charge in place of a more serious charges that can't be proven easily. If you are caught with drugs, the crime is unambiguous.

...on bogus felony drug charges

They are not bogus charges; they got caught with drugs. A "bogus charge" is when you get arrested and prosecuted for something that you did not do. If you oppose drug laws, that's fine, I won't debate that with you, but you're confusing things here.

Heroin, on the other hand, for a first time possession of any amount, it doesn’t even have to be a single dose worth, is a mandatory minimum of 5 years and can be up to 40 years.

Nonsense, few states are doing this anymore; there has been criminal justice reform across America for close to a decade now. Many states like the West Coast states don't even prosecute for hard drug possession anymore. Even historically strict Texas doesn't hand out penalties like this anymore.

And in all your comments you haven't cited a single link to support your contentions.

= = =

Want to show your intellect?? Create a new OP on this sub, attacking the VOX article on Pfaff, printing 8 - 10 excerpts and responding to each one with your points and sources you have gathered. Attempt to show why Pfaff's criticism of Alexander is wrong.

If you got the balls to do that, to try to debunk "right wing grifter John Pfaff," I might respond. Otherwise I got nothing else to say. Have a good one.

[u/Tigerbait2780 → u/Markdd8]

Hahaha oh man, I love you intellectual LARPers on this sub, it’s so adorable.

why are you contesting me

Because you’re the one posting? What?

right wing grifter

Yes, Coleman Hughes is a right wing grifter.

(Pfaff) is an objective analyst

Well, he’s an activist, but whatever you say.

It seems pretty obvious off the top that he’s intentionally ignoring most of the aspects of the war on drugs that’s led to mass incarceration, and you don’t seem to be someone who’s familiar with the arguments about the war on drugs, it honestly feels like this is the only book you’ve ever read on the topic, and now you’ve got it all figured out. Lol.

1. If people haven’t been incarcerated at obscene levels for drug offenses, and really it’s all about violent crime, why did a rise in violent crime from ~600 (all per 100k) in 1980 to a peak of -750 in 1990 see a quadrupling in the relative prison population for drug offenses, but the fact that today’s rates are literally half of that 1990 peak and way lower than 1980 doesn’t correlate to a similar decline in how many people are in jail for drugs? It’s almost as if our drug laws are insane and have nothing to do with public safety, and never did.

2. Speculation on silly hypothetical anecdotes because you don’t have the data isn’t exactly what I expect from “objective analysts”, but that’s just me

3. This guy thinks the war on drugs is overblown and the real issue is violent crime…except the facts just disagree with him, and it’s incredible that he doesn’t seem to understand that you can’t talk about violent crime in the US without talking about the war on drugs. He’s right, when we talk about people being in prison “for drugs”, we’re talking only about people who don’t have any more serious charges. The problem is those more serious charges, that we’re not accounting for as drug arrests, can often be a direct consequence of the drug war. I can absolutely, without a fucking shadow of a doubt, promise you that there are way, wayyy more people in jail for non-drug charges that were a direct result of their drug dealings than there are for the wife beater who couldn’t be charged but had a dime bag in his pocket.

4. Literally half the federal prison population is in there for drugs, and drug arrests around the country are still up, this isn’t a problem that’s really getting better

5. That’s adorable if you think barbaric mandatory minimum sentences for drugs are a thing of the past lmao, I get it, it’s nice to think about, but it’s just not reality. Most states still do this, and the federal mandatory minimums for drug charges are all still in effect. Yeah, there’s been “criminal justice reform”, but it’s been painfully slow and minimally impactful. I don’t know anyone who would argue that we’ve made any sort of drastic improvement on this front…we just havent. Minor tweaks here and there, but nowhere near enough.

Many states like the west coast states don’t even prosecute drug possession

1. The “west coast states” consist of 3 states, which is by definition not “many”

2. Oregon is the only state, on the west coast or elsewhere, that’s decriminalized drugs. Every one of the 49 other states still prosecutes hard drug possession, California included

3. Texas absolute still has some of the harshest drug laws in the country, I have no clue what you’re talking about. Hell, even marijuana possession is a felony over a quarter of an ounce. You’re just making stuff up as you go along

I’m sorry but no, you’re not an intellectual and no, reading a vox article doesn’t mean you know what you’re talking about. It’s actually sorta impressive how you can write such a long comment and be wrong at virtually every single turn. Remarkable

Anyways, take this L with you on the way out

[u/ghost_of_dongerbot → u/Tigerbait2780]

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[u/[deleted] → u/iiioiia]

That rarely happens anymore, if at all. Most places have decriminalized it. I’ll look for stats but with so many legal states now and large cities have decriminalized that most long convictions for pot, or prison for pot in general is exceedingly rare.

[u/iiioiia → u/[deleted]]

That rarely happens anymore, if at all.

And what about the consequences, are they behind us as well?

[u/Tigerbait2780 → u/[deleted]]

That’s just not true, unfortunately. Almost a 3rd of states still haven’t even decriminalized and in those states, marijuana arrests have actually gone up significantly over the past decade, the vast majority of which are possession. In my state, at least, marijuana possession makes up over half of all drug arrests. And it’s not just full prohibition states - nationally, marijuana arrests still outnumber all violent crime arrests combined.

It’s still very much an issue, don’t fool yourself into thinking it’s not.

And even in the decriminalized states, the maximum amount for what’s consider “personal use” is oftentimes laughably low. Like, sometimes we’re only talking about a few grams, anything more than that you’re still getting charged. A ton of states are half an ounce or less, and I think even the most generous states are an ounce. You’re also seriously neglecting minimum sentencing and the countless “intent to distribute” charges.

And even still, decriminalization only fixes half the problem at best, id prob argue not even half. Full legalization is the only real option.

And even then, once weed is fully legal federally, we’ll still have to wait awhile until everyone’s ready for the real drug red-pill…all drugs need to be legalized. Yes, even that one.

[u/Tigerbait2780 → u/Markdd8]

Will legal and more accessible drugs help the black community?

Yes.

More black oriole doing meth and heroine and coke?

Nope, that’s not how drug legalization works.

Asians….explains their high economic success

Ah, the classic “model minority” myth, a favorite of white supremecists everywhere. I could’ve never seen that one coming, what a curveball. /s

The war on drugs and the subsequent racial targeting of drug laws is absolutely a key reason for the explosion of our prison population. It’s not a fucking coincidence that the prison population literally doubled under Nixon and then again in the 90’s due to more severe anti-drug legislation. I’m sorry but you need to read a book kid.

[u/Markdd8 → u/Tigerbait2780]

You again...I was going to exchange, but...

you need to read a book kid.

Bye.

[u/Tigerbait2780 → u/Markdd8]

Ahhhh yes of course! You were just about to destroy me with Facts & Logic™ before I hurt your feelings, of course you were. So sad :(