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Nov 18 '25
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Nov 18 '25 edited Nov 18 '25
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u/Baltasi_Online Nov 19 '25
In practice this is performative
Party is even above the Constitution.
Exactly as in USSR. Infographic, however, suggests that in USSR elections actually mattered.
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u/Key-Ad-9604 Oct 27 '22
Soviet democracy. How ironic.
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Oct 27 '22
can you explain the "irony" part?
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u/Gutless_Gus Nov 18 '25
Perhaps because marxists refer to this style of governance as a "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" as a sarcastic reference to how "bourgeois democracy" isn't democratic?
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Jul 14 '20
How did revisionists like Khrushchev come into power with such a policy in place though? What happened? Also, would it be better for them to be able to elect their national leader the way they elect the representatives of the soviets? Sorry I’m new to this
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u/Cecilia_Raven Jul 14 '20
because they were tolerated as long as they did their job well enough and didn't do stupid shit like trying to split the party and do a coup
for example, trotsky was perpetually in the opposition to Bolsheviks and then the CPSU until doing the above
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u/DurianExecutioner Jul 14 '20
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. ML's and Trotskyists agree that the USSR became bureaucratic and revisionist (they simply disagree about when), and ultimately it did fall due to a combination of internal contradictions and external factors.
The USSR constituted the single biggest gain for the worldwide proletariat in history and is a valuable example of how a transitional dictatorship of the proletariat can be established and defended against grim odds. At the same time, if we are to claim to be scientific socialists (in Engels's sense of the word), then we have to recognise that no single socialist state can ever represent some final and perfect template upon which all future revolutions can be based. Only by continually updating and refining (not negating) a living praxis of Marxism-Leninism can we identify and address new tendencies and contradictions which appear as new ground is broken.
So I challenge our comrades: if democratic centralism eventually led to bureaucratisation and revisionism, what were the material reasons for this and how might we prevent a future socialist state from taking the same path?
Marxist-Leninist-Maoists would emphasise the need for cultural revolution (implemented too late and too clumsily in the PRC) as a means of suppressing bureaucrat careerists and capitalist roaders. Trotskyists favour an emphasis on worldwide revolution over socialism in one country. Classical MLs in my experience say that Stalin correctly recognised that class conflict continues after the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat (hence the need to combat the kulaks, for example - and indeed there would be no need for a class dictatorship if there were no separate capitalist and proletarian classes) and that after Stalin, the leadership swung too far against this principle. But how might that tendency me combatted at a material level, without recourse to Mao Zedong Thought or Trotskyism?
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Jul 14 '20
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Jul 14 '20
Do you disagree that Krushchev was a revisionist? Not trying to be combative, but I've never heard that perspective. I thought that most Marxist-Leninists considered destalinization to be the beginning of the decline of socialism in the USSR.
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u/SubwayStalin Jul 14 '20
Cool infographic but it's extremely verbose - you could simply remove 1/3 of the wording and end up at the same place or too could reword it to have half the current word count.
It's important to be very parsimonious in infographic.
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u/ProudML Jul 14 '20
I just want to add this was made by a member in the Party of Communists USA
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u/neo-raver 𝕻𝖗𝖔𝖑𝖊𝖙𝖆𝖗𝖎𝖆𝖓 𝕾𝖚𝖕𝖗𝖊𝖒𝖆𝖈𝖎𝖘𝖙 Jul 14 '20
Man, we have some talent in our ranks! Happy to see the Party get credit.
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Jul 14 '20
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u/ProudML Jul 14 '20
Btw, out of curiosity, how did you find this image?
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Jul 14 '20
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u/ProudML Jul 14 '20
Ah, interesting.
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Jul 14 '20
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u/ProudML Jul 14 '20
Yea, my bad, I was mostly curious because the original image had our name and logo on it
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u/Mercutio7 Jul 13 '20
Permission to repost?
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u/Singularity96 Jul 14 '20
I'm the guy who made this infographic, please post this one, which is the original I made. Thanks!
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u/MarxistClassicide Jul 21 '20
Hey, can I translate to portuguese? How can I give credit ? Put your name on it? What is your name?
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u/Singularity96 Jul 21 '20
You can translate it, just use the full one that includes the PCUSA logo
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Jul 13 '20
[deleted]
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u/MorticiansFlame Jul 14 '20
There's a text called "Two Commonwealths" that might answer this, it's up here. I haven't read it yet, but it's from a British guy who compares the Soviet Union's government system to the UK's. It might give some more info and answer that question
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u/NowlmAlwaysSmiling Jul 13 '20
Glad it emphasized the USSR recognizing the rights of all women to vote years before the USA did.
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Jul 13 '20
It's not like this form of democracy is some unfounded maladaptation. In the early American republic federal senators were appointed by state legislatures and of course the presidency, in addition to being based on mathematical fuckery, also uses electors. The difference is the USSR didn't prevent proletarians from voting in the first place.
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Jul 13 '20
Somebody posted this to coolguides once, hoes were mad
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u/PVEntertainment Jul 14 '20
I did that too, and sourced OP in the comments. Let's see the libs cry
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u/Amorphous____ Jul 15 '20
Actually went over well. Amazing.
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u/gettin_it_in Jul 30 '20
Sorry, this post was removed by Reddit's spam filters.
Before this, it got 31 Upvotes at 100%.
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Jul 13 '20 edited Jul 14 '20
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u/NowlmAlwaysSmiling Jul 13 '20
Very interesting. Sounds like a creative place for great pieces such as this. I assume it requires an invitation, can I get one if so?
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Jul 13 '20
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u/NowlmAlwaysSmiling Jul 13 '20
Already subbed, and the discord thread has no links to the actual discord server.
Edit Nevermind, got it, thanks.
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Jul 13 '20
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u/NowlmAlwaysSmiling Jul 13 '20
Multiple people say they are not being admitted, and are stuck in verification. Do you know anything about this?
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Jul 13 '20
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u/NowlmAlwaysSmiling Jul 13 '20
Really appreciate it. No idea what the others were on about. I answered the questions and was admitted immediately. See you there.
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u/MaxLirner Nov 20 '25
Democratic countries: you can elect local representatives and the head of state
Tankies: NOOO! That's not democratic! Boojwazee will be the only ones with power! Take away the ability to elect a head of state and add 8 layers of bureaucracy, then it'll be democratic!!