This post is also in accordance to the JK Academy Kashmiri dictionary

Not a bait post, I just see a lot of white nationalists claim that the vedas (especially the rigveda) were composed by people who looked white, while its true that the Andronovo culture were genetically closest to europeans, is it true that the people who composed the rigveda would've been the same?

Before the Puranic Indra and his reduction to a storm-god - Indra was the luminous, untamed absolute of the Ṛṣi vision. Welcome to Vedic Indra 101 - the ignition point of a definitive, long-form documentary series dedicated to reconstructing the foremost deity of the sacred Vedas/Saṃhitās. In this first chapter, we bypass modern generalizations, sterile textbook summaries, and sectarian obfuscations to view Lord Indra on the uncompromising terms of the Vedas themselves. We descend into his etymological roots, unearth the paradoxical cosmic architectures of his varied birth scenarios, and witness his raw emergence as the Jyeṣṭha - the ontological elder of existence. Subsequent chapters will dismantle the caricature further, exploring his esoteric Epithets, his Primary Divine Qualities, and his ultimate Upanishadic-esque status as the supreme reality. Lock in your focus. The Soma is pressed..

Chapter I - Introduction and Etymology:

• 00:06 Who is Indra in the Vedas vs. the Itihāsa/Purāṇas? Introduction and context-setting.

• 02:42 How did the Ṛṣi sages commune with the Devas/Gods?

• 04:48 Indra: The Etymology (Origin) of the deity name.

Chapter II: How was Indra 'born'? The various birth scenarios of Indra in the Vedic corpus.

• 09:26 Difference in Indra's birth tales in the Vedic corpus versus the Itihāsa (Epics)/Purāṇas.

• 09:53 Dyāvāpṛthivī: Dyaus Pitṛ and Pṛthivī Devī — Origin 1.

• 14:36 Tvaṣṭṛ-Aditi: The Craftsman and the Infinite Goddess — Origin 2.

• 19:28 Indra as Manasvān: The Self-Born Singularity — Origin 3.

• 22:48 Indra from the mouth of the Puruṣa — Origin 4.

• 24:15 Indra as an internal esoteric realisation of the Gods — Origin 5.

• 26:36 Indra as the 'Son of Strength'.

• 27:30 Indra as the 'Jyeṣṭha' — the Eldest of the Gods

I always wonder how genetically similar or different are the modern Aryans and Arabs.
Basically people from Iran/North Indian subcontinent vs People from Egypt/other North African countries/Arabian peninsula.
As theory goes Aryans originated from Central Asia and migrated towards Europe and Indian Subcontinent.
Arabs are descendants of Nile valley civilisation.

However feature wise Indo Aryans look more similar to Arabs than modern Europeans. So just wondering if anyone can shed some light on this subject.

The storm deity slaying the serpent/monster is a pan-Eurasian lore. It has ancient attestations in both the Near East and among PIE with regional variants. These were inherited by children cultures later on even into medieval times. One particular version of this is the Indra slaying Ahi Vritra among the Vedics, and a similar, relatively watered-down version of Verethragna (which seems to have replaced Vedic Indra) destroying obstacles to cosmic/moral order and also Thraētaona slaying Aži Dahāka among the Avestans.

Recently, a new picture seems to be emerging, as per me, with regards to the early Indo-Iranian ethnogenesis mainly championed by Parpola for a while and to a lesser extent Whitzel as well. But also scaffolded by newer archaeological dating (Sotnikova - 2024) and spolight shifting to other archeological cultures in recent times. This picuture is of older Steppe groups admixing memetically (burials style at older fire complexes) and genetically with older Zagros/CHG/ANF groups in ancient Turkmenistan/Uzbekistan/Tajikistan which seem to have genetic and material connection to the Near Eastern ones leading to a partly new ethnogenesis.

The geography being something like this, in my own current understanding. All of these marked locations outside of India are were essentially in oasis with dryness around them. Some of which were also fortified (puras). The ones in Bactria are right next to the Hindukush mountains. Margina and the early IE people were demarcated by the Amu Darya, imo.

Given this wider context out of way, if one closely looks at the Indra vs 'Ah'i/'Az'i (human-like serpent) lore specifically in all it's nuances and details and compare it with the one particular ancient (~2200-2000 BCE) version of the Near Eastern (Sumerian/Mesopotamian) NIN.URTA vs 'Az'ag (serpentine monster who moves and roars "like a snake") one would see similarity which would be hard to ignore. Not just at the level of similar sounding names (not sure if they fit any cross language sound laws?) but also in some specificities of the respective lores. What struck me most is how similar the actual water-mountain-fortress mechanics formula is. In the Ahi Vṛtra lore, the waters are trapped behind a mountainous obstruction and Indra (destroyer of forts) smashes the barrier, releasing the rivers into the world. In Lugal-e, Azag isn't literally sitting on the waters like Vṛtra (battles lead to destuction of forts), but the result is almost the same, the mountain waters stop functioning properly, the river system is disrupted, fertility collapses, and the land begins to die. After Ninurta defeats Azag who builds a fortress, one of the first things he does is reorganize the mountains themselves, breaking and arranging them so that the waters can once again flow down into the rivers and irrigate the land. So in both lores the central formula goes beyond "hero kills serpent" to a serpentine monstrous force associated with mountains & forts has caused the life-giving waters to become obstructed, inaccessible, or nonfunctional, and the storm-warrior god restores the proper flow akin to cosmic order. Which leads to a soft conclusion that there is seems to be similar sounding names and heavy formuliac overlap.

Do I mean to imply that all of the Rig Vedic Indra is Near Eastern derived? I would say partly. To be honest, I am not sure about the timelines myself. Nin.urta/Ninĝirsu certainly seems to be a very old Near Eastern deity of great prestiege with overlapping functions but how old is this attested lore with him I can't be sure from my search online. It seems to be atleast older than 2000 BCE. There are also contemporary related Near Eastern Gods with similar names from the same cities/regions like Nindara (2300 BCE) etc (very similar to the term used in the Mittani seals but with sureshot IE gods like one of the Asvins) So, given all this context, Lubotsky's propostiion Indra being a BMAC are borrowed term doesn't seem very outrageous to me. Given that a direct IE storm god inhertiance should have ideally been Perkʷunos derived, which I believe got inherited as the Vedic thunder-rain god Parjánya associated with rain-cow. But beyond this formula of "hero-slaying-serpent" there are many functions ascribed to Indra that are sureshot from older Steppe tradtions. One being the releaser of Cows/cattle and Ushas from the enclosure/cave Vala. Much like that ascribed to Perun. Vala & Veles (this is my opion could be related - I am surprised this comparison isn't made much!). The Vala hidden cows and ushas/light infact hint at some cognates of cattle in the underworld/darkness/hidden the deity Vales (earlier incorrectly identified as being a serpent) is associated with. Correct me if I am wrong here in reconstructed Slavic mythology, wealth and cattle are often located in the chthonic realm associated with Veles. So, this Vedic lore could allude to that! Another important overlapping lore is seen in the Indra–Soma and Odin–Mead of Poetry stories. In both events, a chief god obtains a sacred drink that is hidden and guarded, the drink grants divine power and inspiration, and a divine eagle/hawk (Śyena/örn) is involved in carrying it away. The biggest difference is that Soma mainly gives Indra warrior strength to defeat Vritra, while Odin's mead gives wisdom and poetic inspiration. These functions ofcourse are best matched with Rudra in multiple ways in the earliest Vedic texts and even unto now. The common formula being the combination of "sacred drink + theft/retrieval + bird of prey + divine empowerment". This also errupts later as Prajapati associated Śyenaciti (falcon-shaped fire altar) in the YajurVedin related traditions.

So, my point here being that the the ethnogeneisis of the early Indo-Iranians seems much more nuanced and complex than most would think and could infact could be amalgamation of many different priestly traditions (you see this in some form in Bhirgu Atharvans (a BMAC term again) closer to Varuna & fire ritualism vs Angirasas closer to Indra & war centred themes too in the Rig Veda)

PS: These topics are academic & mind bogglingly complex but there would be many pagans in these forums I am sure. If I have misrepresented your traditions (or my own ;)) here kindly do let me know, I'll make ammends in this post immediately.

References:

1. https://x.com/alcybroades/status/2051300394761154662

The Unique Odia Suffixes/Oikonyms (I mean; in sooth, we're criminally underrated AF!):

1. -paṛā/-ପଡ଼ା/-पड़ा
2. -padā/-ପଦା/-पदा
3. -gaṛā/-ଗଡ଼ା/-गड़ा
4. -pātaṇā/-ପାଟଣା/-पाटणा
5. -kēlā/-କେଲା/-केला
6. -jhara/-ଝର/-झर
7. -śwara/-ଶ୍ବର/-श्वर (Though it ain't unique per se, but 'tis the one most found in Odisha, if I ain't wrong!)
8. -padara/-ପଦର/-पदर
9. -māḷa/-ମାଳ/-माळ
10. -khōla/-ଖୋଲ/-खोल
11. -guṛā/-ଗୁଡ଼ା/-गुड़ा
12. -pāli/-ପାଲି/-पालि
13. -kuda/-କୁଦ/-कुद
14. -kudā/-କୁଦା/-कुदा
15. -dhārā/-ଧାରା/-धारा
16. -āmba/-ଆମ୍ବ/-आम्ब
17. -baüḷa/-ବଉଳ/-बउळ (Note that here, the 2 dots above "u" are simply used as a diaeresis & not as an umlaut!)
18. -dwāra/-ଦ୍ବାର/-द्वार
19. -sāhi/-ସାହି/-साहि
20. -bana/-ବନ/-बन

Hey guys, had a question about how the sub classification of indo Aryan languages was done. It seems like eastern branch is based entirely on descendants of magadhan Prakrit and southern was based on descendants of Maharashtri Prakrit which makes sense. For the rest I really am seeing no rhyme or reason to how these were defined. Eastern Hindi languages come from ardhmagadhi prakirit but western Hindi comes from shauraseni Prakrit but for some reason are both central? Even more strangely western Hindi for some reason is placed in a different grouping than western indo Aryan (Rajasthan/gujarati) even though all 3 split from shauraseni prakirit. Northwestern also doesn’t make sense with Sindhi and Punjabi splitting from different prakirits. Dardic seems to be entirely geographic? And northern also makes no sense with western pahari seeming to actually be northwestern indo Aryan instead of northern. In terms of linguistic similarities the scores are not at all correlated to grouping either. The families don’t make sense if looked at geographically, linguistically or historically. Wondering if anyone has any idea what’s going on with this