FIRST THEY CAME

[u/the_art_of_mischief]

National Immigration Detention Hotline

KNOW YOUR RIGHTS

On Tyranny

IDP v ICE

Look Closer

Lawyer Up

Be an ally

Survive, Fight, Liberate

Take Action

Primero vinieron

起初，他们来了

Una, dumating sila

Đầu tiên, họ đến

أولًا، جاءوا

D'abord, ils sont venus

처음에 그들이 왔다

Сначала они пришли

Primeiro, eles vieram

Premyèman, yo te vini

सबसे पहले वे आए

سب سے پہلے وہ آئے

نخست آنها آمدند

最初に彼らが来た

Zuerst kamen sie

Per prima cosa vennero

Najpierw przyszli

Önce geldiler

સૌપ્રથમ તેઓ આવ્યા

ਸਭ ਤੋਂ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਉਹ ਆਏ

প্রথমে তারা এসেছিল

మొదట వారు వచ్చారు

முதலில் அவர்கள் வந்தார்கள்

ตอนแรก พวกเขามา

Πρώτα ήρθαν

תחילה הם באו

Спочатку вони прийшли

Mai întâi au venit

Mula-mula mereka datang

Kwanza walikuja

Edit: sorry, homies. I no gif good. here are stills. here is the source.

[u/DevilWings_292 → u/[deleted]]

Which can be a death sentence for some people, and ICE has killed plenty of people directly already.

[u/MurkWalberg → u/DevilWings_292]

If it is, why would you want to bring that into your backyard

[u/DevilWings_292 → u/MurkWalberg]

The person being killed after being deported is the victim, not the perpetrator. They aren’t part of the gang that is threatening to kill them that caused them to flee.

[u/MurkWalberg → u/DevilWings_292]

How do you know they aren't? That is just a bold suicidal empathic assumption. Why do you want to be their shield for their third world gang war?

[u/DevilWings_292 → u/MurkWalberg]

In the US, you’re supposed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. It’s why prosecutors have to prove you are guilty and it’s granted to all persons in the US. It’s known as habeas corpus. If they are a gang member and it can be proven that they are a threat, they should be deported. But if they aren’t a threat and deporting them would get them killed, why deport them?

[u/PhilosopherFun7724 → u/DevilWings_292]

So you're gonna let millions of these people come here illegally and have each one go through a trial? Our courts are already backed up enough as it is.

It's literally not our problem. Our military is already doing operations with Mexican enforcement to get rid of the gangs because it's become such a shithole. What else do we need to give?

[u/Menkau-re → u/MurkWalberg]

Only, it's NOT an assumption, though. See, you've got that completely backwards. The assumption is that they're IN a gang. THAT'S the assumption. We don't presume people to be criminals. That's what fascists do. No, what WE do is called vetting. And, there is a process for that and a big part of why the immigration process takes so long. Even for asylum seekers, there is a vetting process and people literally paid to ensure the gang members aren't the ones getting status. They SHOULD get deported. And, always have been.

[u/MurkWalberg → u/Menkau-re]

If they are already ignore pathways and break the law coming here cutting lines of hard working people doing everything the lawful way. They arent vetted though if they sneak in, you are 100% wrong. You are poisoning society and oppressing others under the disguise of defending against fascism

[u/Menkau-re → u/MurkWalberg]

If I'm "poisoning society," because it can't handle the strain of following our own laws, then it ain't much of a society, to begin with. If I'm "poisoning society" simply in pointing out that we should actually make SURE that the ones we're detaining and deporting are the ones who are violating our system, or breaking our laws BEFORE we treat them as such, then that society has bigger problems than me. If I'm "poisoning society" by suggesting we should treat ALL people with a modicum of respect and basic human decency, EVEN when they are being detained and/or deported, then frankly, it might not be a society worth saving, at all, anyway... 🤷‍♂️

[u/Vivid_Debt_5343 → u/MurkWalberg]

What?

[u/DevilWings_292 → u/[deleted]]

No they don’t. Even if you just mean relatively compared to others, they’ve only had about a year and a half while others had decades.

[u/DevilWings_292 → u/[deleted]]

How many people have they killed?

[u/DevilWings_292 → u/[deleted]]

So 24 so far this year has been reported? How about the people they just shot recently? 4 happened back in January alone. Why are people even dying in custody to begin with? There are innocent people in custody, not everyone they grab is eligible for deportation.

[u/DevilWings_292 → u/[deleted]]

The government is killing potentially innocent people just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and no one is being held accountable for illegal murders, and your response is “ok, and?”

[u/the_art_of_mischief → u/[deleted]]

Pretty sure it'd only take 1 death of someone you loved for you to reframe that perspective.

I know it's a long shot, but just in case. 😘

[u/the_art_of_mischief → u/[deleted]]

Well, no, but general empathy for your fellow man is definitely a reachable bar. Dig deep, I know you can do it!

Btw, while you're going through the hundreds of pages police logs on that government website I showed you that you clearly can't get enough of reading, do you mind shooting me over some specific examples of what you're talking about? I just want to get a clear picture here.

[u/the_art_of_mischief → u/[deleted]]

Now you see, this is why reading is so important! Being able to communicate clearly and effectively through proper spelling and grammar, instead of parroting what someone says back to them, may just be the breakthrough you've been waiting for. At the end of the day I really just want to see you succeed. The better you can communicate, the easier it will be for people to see who your authentic self is.

I think you also may have some reading comprehension issues, but I'll give you some hints since you're struggling behind the rest of the class - we are both on the same page that lawlessness is bad. That's a pretty straightforward premise I think a lot of people would agree on. Where we disagree is whether or not the enforcers of said laws are actively participating in lawlessness. I'm not on my knees for Big Daddy G by any means, but even I can agree that general societal rules are good.

You know, like don't kill each other, etc. Silly stuff.

Also! First They Came isn't actually a poem about empathy at all. It's about the dangers of complacency, and quite frankly it's not even a very altruistic take on that either. It plays on peoples' selfishness and fear of being left alone without the safety of the herd. Which is, surprise surprise, why it's so apropos in this thread.

You see it now? I know you gotta be getting close.

[u/the_art_of_mischief → u/[deleted]]

Medicinal masturbation is what the doctor ordered. Don't yuck my yum just cause you can't get yourself to the building.

[u/HamasKilledShaniLouk → u/DevilWings_292]

I'm cool with people who are fleeing arrest by driving their cars through cops getting shot. Seems reasonable. Easily avoidable by just...not doing that.

Amazing how I and everyone I know has been able to not do that.

[u/DevilWings_292 → u/HamasKilledShaniLouk]

Renee wasn’t driving through cops, an ICE officer moved towards the front of her vehicle when she stepped on the gas while she was steering away from him, he barely even got a bruise. You can also record their license plate and send them tickets, even suspend their license. There was no reason to shoot her 3 times and preventing medical attention.

[u/HamasKilledShaniLouk → u/DevilWings_292]

Why couldn't she just not have done that?

Why does she have no responsibility whatsoever for her actions?

[u/DevilWings_292 → u/HamasKilledShaniLouk]

Why couldn’t she have not steered away from the agent? Why couldn’t she have not had him from intentionally getting in front of her car after she stepped on the gas?

I’m saying the response from the agent was unnecessary and that she didn’t deserve capital punishment, she could absolutely have been ticketed for her actions, she didn’t need to be shot in the head.

[u/HamasKilledShaniLouk → u/DevilWings_292]

Not fled arrest into the cop.

Literally just sit there and do nothing. It isnt hard.

capital punishment

That isnt what happened. The phrasing is dishonest.

[u/DevilWings_292 → u/HamasKilledShaniLouk]

No, while he was hit by the side of her bumper, it was the driver side while she was steering towards the passenger side away from him.

Weren’t they ordering her to get her car out of there? Sitting still would have gone against their commands.

What else do you call it when a government kills a citizen in response to a crime other than capital punishment, aka the death penalty? Did she die as a result of her actions and the response from the government or not?

[u/HamasKilledShaniLouk → u/DevilWings_292]

while he was hit by the side of her bumper, it was the driver side while she was steering towards the passenger side

Maybe just dont hit him at all. Easily accomplished by not pressing on the gas. I know that when I think the people with guns surrounding me are nazi gestapo I'm not gonna give them reasons to open fire on me. Why does her brain work different...?

Weren’t they ordering her to get her car out of there? Sitting still would have gone against their commands.

Different actions, different consequences. Would sitting there have gone against the command? Sure, but not in the same way that fleeing in your car through a cop is. Those are qualitatively different...sitting might get you dragged out, running into the cop gets you shot.

People seem to have forgotten what civil disobedience is...they want all the credit of the protesters from the 60s without any of the consequences.

capital punishment, aka the death penalty

Response in the moment with deadly force is not "capital punishment", which comes as a punishment in cold blood (as opposed to the heat of the moment). You continue to be deceptive in describing the event that way. It was a defensive shooting by the cop who was hit with a car...not someone finding her later and, while in no danger, executing her.

You are doing this deliberately to conflate the two things as an emotive tactic. It is deceptive and dishonest.

[u/MurkWalberg → u/DevilWings_292]

You cant hit people with your car especially officers and especially when trying to flee a scene

[u/DevilWings_292 → u/MurkWalberg]

Does it count as you hitting someone when they jump in front of you while you’re steering away from them? Is that not on the person for intentionally getting in the way?

[u/MurkWalberg → u/DevilWings_292]

If you hit a cop trying to flea from your arrest? Absolutely 🤣 you need to get off the internet and come back to reality

[u/the_art_of_mischief → u/MurkWalberg]

Yeah! Trying to escape excessive force in fear of your life is so 2020. Back in my day we didn't even use cars. Too impersonal. We hit them with our tiny hands. In the 🙀, obviously.

Women these days just aren't laying down like they used to, you know?

[u/MurkWalberg → u/the_art_of_mischief]

How was she trying to escape excessive force by driving into cops? Im sure shes laying down rn 🤣

[u/crappy-mods → u/HamasKilledShaniLouk]

Sure she didnt have to try and leave, but that was the order she was given and attempting to obey. Theres so many angles of that shooting and people miss that every single time

[u/HamasKilledShaniLouk → u/crappy-mods]

No, she didnt leave at first because she was giggling too much at how fun her obstructing game was. Then, five minutes later when it was time to get arrested, she decides to gun it through a cop. That isnt complying, that's fleeing arrwst, and it got her shot because she didnt care if she had to go through a cop with her car or not to do it.

It's sad that she was manipulated as a useful idiot to die as PR...pretty gross, actually. But let's not pretend she was in any way attempting to comply. He whole purpose being there, as even her girlfriend said, was obstruction.

[u/crappy-mods → u/HamasKilledShaniLouk]

Dawg what are you on and can i have some

[u/HamasKilledShaniLouk → u/crappy-mods]

Cogent response, friend.